Deserves Sharing - found on a forum in mexico

What's this all about?
As will become clear from the body, I was looking to the return to
the UK and buy a shop, but rather than send it to hundreds of shops
- I only sent it to four, three replied 'not interested' or were
too expensive.
One replied in quite an 'expansive ' way, so much so that I started
asking questions that would lead to further
'helpfulness' - the thread is unbeleivable, but horribly true. At
the end I had to let it run out, there was nothing more to add.
The shop owner used the nymm 'Rob'.
ENJOY!

<Spot the shop>


UK Dive Centre Wanted:
Hiya all,

Sorry if this catches you unrequested, but I send it to friends,
friends of friends, and dive operations back home there in England
and request you pass it on as appropriate.

I own a large share in a dive centre in Mexico where I have been
for over ten years - but need to come home to Blighty for personal
reasons - parents getting on a bit.

So, I'm looking for options from you my friends :

Buy an existing dive centre (PADI 5* IDC or lower)
Buy INTO similar
Part ex my shares (PADI Dive Centre) against above
I need to keep my identity quiet until I have some options in place
, in case it unsettles my staff, so I haven't put it on PADI but if
you are interested, I ask that you email a brief resume of

1) Location
2) Certitfications (PADI) per month (with breakdown of OW AOW etc)
3) Equipment sales
4) Turnover/profit for last three years.

You don't need to be too specific, I just want to pinpoint top 2 or
3 to get my lawyers to investigate further (under non-disclosure
terms of course). Oh, I'm from Kettering area, so Midlands, Notts
etc good

I look forward to hearing from you, please advise as soon as
possible as I need to get cracking with this - I'll choose 3 from
first 10 or 15 responses..


Muchas Gracias


Looby
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Ola, como estas, we are just about to market our store 5 star IDC 5
years open 8 in total average turn over
is good with very low over heads.
Great set up ready to move in and start trading from day one.
Total certs about 2000 300 OW, 300 AOW, 125 rescue 800 various
specialities and about 300+ pro level.
We average about 250 a year taking roughly £50000 pa with about
£38000 being profit.
Store is busy we have good brands and no one near us so turn over
is good average about £1000 a week with
high margins, does get as high as £4-£5 in the summer and lower in
the winter months.
We also have good military and Police contracts for kit that you
may want to take on , very good money not much work.
Also very busy servicing business.

Shop is in the Midlands awsome passing trade, fantastic reputation.
IDC from as far north as Scotland and
south to just above M25 corridor and we cover a good area in the
UK with no real compertition locally.

Am looking to sell either in full so we can leave the country sorry
not interested in part ex any other store.
The store has a large flat above which I rent out but may be an
added bonus to anyone relocating and your only
about an hour max from Kettering. Will consider part sell but will
need a lot of working out to suit us both.
The shop is very profitable low over heads and easy to run with
only a couple of staff some may be available
but we can disscuss. I think a straight lease hold or freehold if
you can afford would suit you better
specialy as you are experienced in the trade.

I dont know how well you know the Northampton area any more but its
flooded with dive stores 3 northampton
and 5- 6 in the surrounds, very scary how they survive is beyond
me.

Get back to me if this sounds of interest, we also have an add on
stores for sale PADI.com but very little
info on there as I dont want to give details.

What time scale are you working on have you a buyer or are you just
starting your sale.
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Hello,

What is your estimate of value for property, stock, goodwill.

Thanks
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The shop and flat have been valued at £225000 freehold good income
from the flat and its been fully renovated
and fitted for rental.
If you just want to take the shop there is at the moment approx
£60000 worth of retail stock in the shop
£12000 worth of service kits/replacement parts in the servicing
business, we can run this down but we are
at perfect levels and re-order levels for our set up, if possible
financially I would recommend somewhere
near this to keep turn over figures.
PADI stock is about £3000 everything for every course in stock
including IDC materials sensible levels
for all courses and library copies of school DVD's.
The shop has a great compressor/tank test room Nitrox blender 2 x
7.5 cfm air and fill station/bank.
The school has approx 30 full sets including drysuits in all sizes
and all HSE required equipment as well
as all course materials for all PADI courses.
For the school kit comp room and fixtures we are looking at about
£65000.
Good will is just set against our profit made, as this is the
fairest way I currently clear £42000 per year
in profit once all expenses are gone I want a sale and would ask
only 2 years profit to walk away and save
any hagling the sales valuation guy said 4 years is traditional
but i want the business to stay strong once
we go so £80000 will be enough to justify all our work.
So as we stand without the freehold stock = £63000 could be reduced
kit and fixtures= £65000
good will/ 100% buy out= £80000

Running costs are very low and as I said originally I may part sell
but if you need any more info get back to
me or have any ideas or questions.

If this sounds in your budget or you would like to discuss figures
for every day traiding profit/loss accounts
are available but we would need to move on to a more formal
introduction and speak over the phone to get an
idea of our situation.

Hydro- internal shot blast and full Idest test centre approval
required in UK. Service with all equipment
manufacturers in house no contracting out needed for anything.

Would you want to keep the servicing under its current contract or
take it on as it is and run it yourself
this is a minor point that we can deal with closer to the time but
this is the only place there is a need
for staff unless you are already qualified with all brands.
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Ok ,i'll stick you on my short list, only thing is cost/return
ratio is all wrong - at only 10% return pa I'd be better of putting
my cash in a bond and sitting on my fat ass.

My sale is progressing, I should clear around US900k, i'll be in
touch once I've done the rounds of the other offers on my list.

Thanks

Oh, how recent is the property valuation, I've heard property
values are dropping by the day back there - maybe I'l stay here!
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Hi , home buyers are in the crap but commercial is great specially
comm letting in the Mids its going up monthly
as there is a shortage along the new tram and metro routes.
Getting it revalued as we e-mail should have it
in a couple of days.

Not trying to teach my granny to suck eggs as you obviosly have an
idea what your talking about but ROI is
bank manager and marketing speak much like statistics we can make
them say anything.

With any business if over 50% of the price is allocated to indirect
(i.e stock, fixtures) costs, not viable
sales ROI is an untrustworthy method of assessing a business as
most of your purchase is set assets that
never change they just become your property after a sale, the
torrens system of working on asset depreciation
is much more accurate puts us approx 37% true profit to asset
value.

I am not trying to over sell my store but we have not been bodging
our figures to get a sale, I have bought and
sold 4 stores around the globe and this is my baby your money
investment back in 4 years is great in the UK
maybe abroad is much better profit to turn over ratio but not
England maybe tax and cost of living are to blame for that.

If people are claiming more than that check very carefully before
you buy.

I dont like to see anyone stung in any business let alone diving .
90% of UK stores are on there arse 3% are
good (we fall into this one) and the rest are discount merchants
and market traders that just happen to own dive shops.

Our T/o is only £75 grand but solid every year with £40- £45 grand
profit and very easy to run with low
overheads it would be very easy to increase turn over with
additional staff and retail expantion but the
profit would not go up equaly so I haven't bothered but you could
if the drive is there.

We dont internet sell or dive show, we just retail to our guys and
punter of the street, you could also
add this but again is it worth it for very little extra profit
with so many others discounting as low as
trade price plus vat.

We are 2 Course Directors and run it easily on our own and are
looking to move away from the UK in a years
time so if you do think its worth a look great if not good luck
with your other choices.

Just for info we are moving to the caribean so a sale in dollars
would suit me and as the exchange rate
is good in your favour it would be better value.

I could move on the price a little then as capital gains tax would
no longer be a problem for me.

Even if you choose to deal with some other store if you need help
or info on a store or situation give me an e-mail .
I know the UK business and market realy well and may be able to
give you a heads up if nothing else.

Regards
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Hi

I'm getting some good vibes here, but I'm a bit worried you have a
such good relationship with your 'punters' that it will fall flat
with your absence. Are there any staff (paid or unpaid) to consider
who will continue with the corporation to keep existing customers
happy.

And what is it with this VAT taxation rate? Is that in addition to
sales tax?

Regards
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To be honest we have 3 full time staff but the guy who runs the
servicing business is realy the face of retail
and the other two that teach just do it for the fun of it so they
will just carry on I would of thought but
as we haven't disclosed to anyone we are selling so I have not
spoke to them but i can sort all that out
in very little time once we think we are getting to an agreement.

Are you going to front it or do you want us to fish for a good
manager at some point I have a few in mind
but wouldn't want to choose for you.

I think the servicing guy would give you 2 years till he has paid
his debts off minimum and he is well
worth keeping. And we would hand over to your staff or yourself
over a period if you wanted us to which
would sort all that out straight away.

As for the current customer base if your a human being and not an
asshole it will make no change at all .
We never have people thinking we are there friends its a business
and they are customers its not a clicky
centre and we tell people from the start they pay us to do a job
and we have a good social time after
dive days but the customer turn over means if they are hear over a
year they usually become do it for
a hobby staff.

Over the 8 or so years we will get a situation every now and again
where you get a little clicky group
trying to branch off, but easy to deal with let them go as soon as
it looks a bit iffy. It creates a nice
clear out of dead wood and you always get new blood.

Us being gone will not affect anything its good instruction and
standards that keep peple coming back and
the locals respect honesty and straight foward speaking. 95% realy
easy to deal with.

As for the tax you are exempt on training and education but you
will pay vat on profit for kit sales.

We usually get A TAX REFUND each quarter of between 1 and 3 grand
but the accounts we are dealing with the
figures off are the one the VAT man sees thats why we never show
above £42000 profit in a year we obviously
take more than that but only show what comes through the point of
sale machine and police MOD sales we
probably take about £18000 a year in cash/cheque but dont show
that on the accounts.

Unfortunatly now we are coming to sell we are tied to our accounts
figures it might reduce how good a buy
we look to others,but its already saved us a lot of money so no
point bullshitting people we take in
about £60000 a year but our books and yours if you come in need to
say otherwise.

We have a good accounts guy look after us nothing illegal just
avoids what he can and all expenses go
against the business, easy to take you over and well worth your
time in future.

As for the sale tax of the business I will pay a % of the sale it
capital gains tax depending on the
final figure so US dollar never coming into this country means I
dont get stung in the UK .
So you will not pay on money you are bringing into the UK either
that cant be bad for either of us can it.
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Hey,

We seem to have a thing here! I've whittled my choices down to 3 or
4 now, and your honesty is something I like.
Culero customers! We have them too..... Conchetumare Americanos!

I still don't understand your Vat business, we must take the
Turista for our Vat on all courses, diving is a luxury no?


I'll be in touch, this is getting close.

Adios

L
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at is very straight forward and I can take you through the exemopt
and non-exempt items so you can do
a spread sheet at the end of each qtr year and let the accountant
sort it out . It pays for itself
after the first month so well worth the investment in time.

Many UK businesses get this wrong that is why they get large bills
for non paid vat and that takes
there capital.

Its a minor iritation on kit sales only all the training is tax
free the opposite to what you deal with now,
any type of training or training materials are seen as forwarding
a persons skills so no vat to pay which
means a lot of your earnings are shown as Vat free and this is why
I receive vat refunds each period.

So you pay vat on all out goings (costs) knock off vat you take in
from kit sales the remaining figure
you claim back from the inland revenue its always in the shops
favour unless. 1/2 hours work each month
for a good return.

Hows your sale going
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Hiya,

My shop sale is near completion, my solicitors have received non-
revocable guarantees and banked 50% deposit
from the purchasers,
so I have $500k in the bank even if they don't complete - I guess I
can have a fat cigar or two..

Anyhow, about staff, I take on board what you said about staff with
assumptions - the guys you have currently
have no shares etc in the
business?, if I decide to go all 'new blood' there ie no
complications to uncouple?

I'm about to instruct my family solicitors Mason Bullock of
Northampton to begin due dilligance with my short
list of three - of which I can only say you
are 'not the worst candidates'

Please supply at minimum a 'name' and phone number so they can
initiate contact and start the process.

Thanks.

Lou

Ps

I'd like to be in and at the helm b4 2009 is very old, what would
you take for a very short and sweet sale.
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Hi Lou, if you want all new staff thats fine I just need to factor
in the servicing stuff to the sale,
and no complications at all with bodies the guy will probably come
with us to the caribean anyway at
some point, cant see him looking for anything else in the UK, but
we can give him options and see what
he says either way.

For a sale figure are we talking dollars or sterling for the shop
sale and I dont remember what you said
about the freehold it would be a better option then you get £5000
a year from the flat also, or did you say lease hold. Still not got
the written valuation through for the freehold should have it
tommorrow they say.

This makes a difference to my stuff so could you give me an idea so
I can do numbers in the right currency.
I think a freehold sale has to be in the UK in sterling but would
like the shop sale in US is my best option would this be an issue
as I want to buy in the carribean anyway.

Contact 077xx xxxxxx for your legal guys its my mobile and they
will always get me on that number.
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Sorry Lou , been away teaching IDC had a non delivered mail
notification when I got back but cant tell which on It is so I will
resend my contact number. If it wasnt yours sorry in advance mate.

077xx xxxxxxx any time on this one.
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Hello all,

This is a generic mail to all the on my shortlist, I apologise for
the lack of individual attention,
but I will add each a note or two as appropriate.

Sorry for the delay, been tieing up some loose ends with my sale -
but I am now 'free and clear' and
have nearly a million bucks in the bank.
And I could afford to feel smug, everythings depressed wordwide
which means if I buy,
I'll get more 'bangs for my bucks' but I'm not like that,
I want some quality for my money, rather than a 'firesale' bargain.
Hell , look at Montecito,
was worth a few dollars till yesterday, now Nada!..
Como viene, se va!

Anyway, I now have contact details for all three in the hands of my
solicitor, they are awaiting final
go ahead to check you guys out, I have a favourite, but we shall
see how it pans out... what is it that
shit you watch there ... The X factor ... I am Simon Coul and you
are the singers?

Many thanks


Lou

PS

I like your honesty, you hit the spots.
Couple of final bits before I pay the briefs to ask the same
questions.
Figures..
Real Estate - Uk Paid if must -- price: =
All the rest - dollars - paid overseas : =

No negotiation figures - bottom dollar to walk away with cash in
pocket.


VaT sales tax. I'm mystified by this one Rob, the others charge VaT
for courses and quote
VaT on stuff, you say its VaT reclaimable. Is it a regional thing?

Thanks

Lou
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Como estas
Dont watch that Xfactor shit I have a life and prime time Saturay
night is Miller time so, Lo siento no entiende .

Bottom line no bull shit If it can be sent straight to my account
in the Cayman so never touches the UK
and I just sign the lease hold over to you and walk away for the
shop I would take US dollar 300000.
This is mostly because of the piss poor exchange rate, but gets me
my first buy to let on the island free and clear, and I think Id
rather you have the place than these other mugs Im having to give
the time of day to, this is however weird as weve never met.

Cant get a straight answer on freehold the agents haven't got a
clue and each time I have to pay the idiot £300.

4 valuations 4 different quotes so god knows

Tsr = 229000, First direct = 220000, Bdp= 210000, Business sales
226000. utter crap £20000 difference

My mate runs a letting company called Trowmans we think if all sold
together to get what Im happy with to walk off
,I will save myself £40000 Capital gains so for the real estate I
would take £180000 no questions
then you get a good deal I dont collect or have to pay CGT the
accountant also says this is a top outcome
for both of us and I trust him without question.

I would need to do this in sterling as I will be getting screwed on
the exchange rate twice, unless again
from my accounts guy we can do something again to benefit us equaly

What will be your tax burden for bringing your money into the UK
and could we use this to offset my sterling
loss to the dollar and again can be done away from the UK. If its
no benefit to you it needs to be sterling
till the rate improves or Im cutting my own throat, and Im not
stupid or desperate so dont realy see a
benefit Im happy with £180000 so why bother bartering over a few
grand.

God knows what the others are talking about.

You do not charge or collect Vat on courses very illegal, no
taxable sales on education UK wide,
no regions on Vat law mate every one in the same boat.

You charge and pay VAT on equipment sales

Pro 3000 Bcd retail £475

Pro 3000 Bcd trade £225 = vat x 17.5% =£39.38 paid £264.38

Profit= £210.62


You now pay Vat on your sale £475 x .8510638 leaves you with
£404.26 after collecting £70.74 vat from sale

Vat collected = £70.74

Vat paid = £39.38

you owe vat man £31.36 difference


Now the good bit, you also pay your phone bill, fill up your car
with fuel and go for a meal all of which
you pay vat on and claim back for sake of argument all the vat
which comes to £45

You have vat bill £45 - the 31.36 you owe from the sale the vat man
owes you £13.64 which you claim back
each quarter.

So you only claim and pay Vat on sales you show through your books,
you claim back on everything you do
and as I say that gets you a qtrly bonus of between £1000 and 3000.

This is a very easy example, not trying to talk down to you but a
lot of people get this wrong and it costs
them a load in the end and a big vat bill will close even the
strongest companys.

If the others that you are looking at haven't even got this right
take a good look at everything else this
is Muy Basico for any business from day one.

If revenue and customs find they are collecting Vat not entitled
they will have to pay it all back plus large fine.

Adios hasta luego



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THE END.