OT: Capture of 200 dolphins for Cancun park

Source was CNN.com --
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science...eut/index.html

CANCUN, Mexico (Reuters) -- Environmentalist groups fear for the
physical condition of up to 25 dolphins flying from the anarchy-torn
Solomon Islands to an aquatic park in Mexico this week.

The animals were among 200 wild dolphins captured in the Solomon
Islands and held in tiny pens awaiting sale in what activists have
branded "an environmental crime."

"This is the biggest single capture of dolphins for public display,"
said Ben White of the Washington-based Animal Welfare Institute.

"The ones that are coming here are going to be in horrible shape," he
said in the Caribbean resort of Cancun.

Activists fear the dolphins could suffer trauma from being uprooted
from their environment in the South Pacific ocean and could also
infect local dolphins living off the tropical Yucatan peninsula with
new diseases.

As around 2,000 Australian-led troops and police headed on Monday for
the Solomon Islands to restore order, the dolphins were loaded onto a
chartered Brazil Air Cargo DC-10 jet with a hold full of "coffin-like"
containers, according to Australian media reports.

Impoverished local fishermen in the Solomons, a chain of 1,000 islands
1,800 km (1,200 miles) northeast of Australia, sold the dolphins for
$260 a head, the Australian Associated Press news agency said.

Australia has urged Mexico to block the deal. But Georgita Ruiz of the
Mexican government's environmental protection agency said there was no
reason to do so.

"We are the first to be concerned that these things are done according
to the law. We found no element to deny the import permit," Ruiz told
Reuters.

She said the decision to allow the dolphins to be brought into Mexico
was taken after careful consultation with scientists. She said the
dolphins would be given full medical checks to ensure they could not
pass on any disease.

Thirty-three dolphins were originally ordered but only 20-25 were on
the flight, Ruiz said.

Mexican environmental groups have filed a suit arguing it is illegal
to bring exotic species into a protected natural area.

"These are cold water dolphins and here it's 28 degrees Centigrade.
It's an issue of water temperature and quality, the species living
here, the food. It's not logical to bring them," said Aracelie
Dominguez, founder of an environmentalist network in the Mexican state
of Quintana Roo.

No one was available to comment at Parque Nizuc, the aquatic park in
Cancun where the dolphins are headed. Visitors to the park can swim
with dolphins at a cost of 900 pesos (US $86) per person on top of a
290 peso admission fee, or simply kiss and pet the dolphins for 489
pesos.

The trade in live dolphins is governed by the Convention on
International Trade in Endangered Species, which prohibits it if it is
detrimental to them and not subject to proper regulation.

"Matt" <matt.jacobs@alumni.utexas.net> wrote in message
news:2fb116b1.0307221301.3866ce83@posting.google.c om...
> Source was CNN.com --
> http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science...eut/index.html

I read in several different sources that it was 28 dolphins and that they
had on helluva time loading them into the aircraft in the Solomons due to
the density of press photographers clashing with police.

These dolphin pen ops suck big time. They paid fisherman $60 US for each
dolphin and don't keep records on "breakage" (dolphins that die in
captivity). They care about nothing but profits and hoodwinking as many
otherwise ignorant tourists as they can.

Greg Mossman wrote:
> "Chuck" <cpeterson31@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:B1QUa.83451$R92.54529@news2.central.cox.net.. .
>
>>This is sick and the people that are doing this along with the people that
>>are allowing it to be done should be put in prison
>
>
> Why, if it's legal in both countries concerned?
>
> We're in a world that still permits whaling by the Japanese and American
> Indians. In the U.S. we still raise veal calves in tiny pens and we flay
> mink alive to remove their pelts for fancy fur coats, etc. There are still
> countries in the world that practice human slavery, at least in practical
> form. So you're gonna worry about a few trained Flippers?


This is called making one thing look better by making something else
look worse. It's a cop-out, Greg, and you should know better.


--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten' ICQ = 35253273
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know." -- Richard Wilbur

"jer" <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote in message
news:3F240AE0.2040805@airmail.ten...

> This is called making one thing look better by making something else
> look worse. It's a cop-out, Greg, and you should know better.

And that was in response to something else called blowing things out of
proportion. If you're going to rail againt a single rogue operator with a
few rogue dolphins, you're not accomplishing much. There are still plenty
of legitimate "dolphin experience" operators out there that treat their
captives no better.

This is sick and the people that are doing this along with the people that
are allowing it to be done should be put in prison
"Matt" <matt.jacobs@alumni.utexas.net> wrote in message
news:2fb116b1.0307221301.3866ce83@posting.google.c om...
> Source was CNN.com --
> http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science...eut/index.html
>
> CANCUN, Mexico (Reuters) -- Environmentalist groups fear for the
> physical condition of up to 25 dolphins flying from the anarchy-torn
> Solomon Islands to an aquatic park in Mexico this week.
>
> The animals were among 200 wild dolphins captured in the Solomon
> Islands and held in tiny pens awaiting sale in what activists have
> branded "an environmental crime."
>
> "This is the biggest single capture of dolphins for public display,"
> said Ben White of the Washington-based Animal Welfare Institute.
>
> "The ones that are coming here are going to be in horrible shape," he
> said in the Caribbean resort of Cancun.
>
> Activists fear the dolphins could suffer trauma from being uprooted
> from their environment in the South Pacific ocean and could also
> infect local dolphins living off the tropical Yucatan peninsula with
> new diseases.
>
> As around 2,000 Australian-led troops and police headed on Monday for
> the Solomon Islands to restore order, the dolphins were loaded onto a
> chartered Brazil Air Cargo DC-10 jet with a hold full of "coffin-like"
> containers, according to Australian media reports.
>
> Impoverished local fishermen in the Solomons, a chain of 1,000 islands
> 1,800 km (1,200 miles) northeast of Australia, sold the dolphins for
> $260 a head, the Australian Associated Press news agency said.
>
> Australia has urged Mexico to block the deal. But Georgita Ruiz of the
> Mexican government's environmental protection agency said there was no
> reason to do so.
>
> "We are the first to be concerned that these things are done according
> to the law. We found no element to deny the import permit," Ruiz told
> Reuters.
>
> She said the decision to allow the dolphins to be brought into Mexico
> was taken after careful consultation with scientists. She said the
> dolphins would be given full medical checks to ensure they could not
> pass on any disease.
>
> Thirty-three dolphins were originally ordered but only 20-25 were on
> the flight, Ruiz said.
>
> Mexican environmental groups have filed a suit arguing it is illegal
> to bring exotic species into a protected natural area.
>
> "These are cold water dolphins and here it's 28 degrees Centigrade.
> It's an issue of water temperature and quality, the species living
> here, the food. It's not logical to bring them," said Aracelie
> Dominguez, founder of an environmentalist network in the Mexican state
> of Quintana Roo.
>
> No one was available to comment at Parque Nizuc, the aquatic park in
> Cancun where the dolphins are headed. Visitors to the park can swim
> with dolphins at a cost of 900 pesos (US $86) per person on top of a
> 290 peso admission fee, or simply kiss and pet the dolphins for 489
> pesos.
>
> The trade in live dolphins is governed by the Convention on
> International Trade in Endangered Species, which prohibits it if it is
> detrimental to them and not subject to proper regulation.

"Greg Mossman" <mossman@qnet.com> wrote in message
news:vi8jgj6al20180@corp.supernews.com...
> "Da Parrot-chick" <just@sk.me> wrote in message
> news:whXUa.122108$Io.10431395@newsread2.prod.itd.e arthlink.net...
>
> > As far as indigenous aboriginal tribes whaling; they harvest whales of
> > plentiful species like minke and Pacific gray whales and not bowheads
and
> > rights, at self-sustaining levels. It isn't a case of harvests that
> number
> > annually in the millions. So that argument is whack too.
>
> Bottlenose dolphins are plentiful too. They're certainly not endangered.
> And I wasn't aware that the Cancun park was harvesting millions. Only 28.

No one in this discussion is asserting millions. IMO one dolphin harvested
for these SWTD parks is one too many.

> Hyperbole is a technique used by those whose arguments can't stand on
their
> own without embellishment.

ITA. None is needed here, and that's why I stuck to the facts.

Greg Mossman wrote:
> "jer" <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote in message
> news:3F240AE0.2040805@airmail.ten...
>
>
>>This is called making one thing look better by making something else
>>look worse. It's a cop-out, Greg, and you should know better.
>
>
> And that was in response to something else called blowing things out of
> proportion. If you're going to rail againt a single rogue operator with a
> few rogue dolphins, you're not accomplishing much. There are still plenty
> of legitimate "dolphin experience" operators out there that treat their
> captives no better.


Yes, there are many opportunities to rail against animal abuse. But
this particular abuse is happening alomost in my back yard. Since I
visit all of my back yards regularly, it's an opportunity I find
difficult to pass up. You may prefer to consider the animals 'rogue',
I prefer to consider the operators to be the sole 'rogue' contributors
to this fiasco. I suppose the difference depends on one's personal
ethics and convictions.


--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten' ICQ = 35253273
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know." -- Richard Wilbur

"Da Parrot-chick" <just@sk.me> wrote in message
news:whXUa.122108$Io.10431395@newsread2.prod.itd.e arthlink.net...

> As far as indigenous aboriginal tribes whaling; they harvest whales of
> plentiful species like minke and Pacific gray whales and not bowheads and
> rights, at self-sustaining levels. It isn't a case of harvests that
number
> annually in the millions. So that argument is whack too.

Bottlenose dolphins are plentiful too. They're certainly not endangered.
And I wasn't aware that the Cancun park was harvesting millions. Only 28.

Hyperbole is a technique used by those whose arguments can't stand on their
own without embellishment.

> People look at the jawline of bottlenose dolphins and think they're
smiling.
> That anthromorphic characteristic of the dolphins makes them an easy
target
> for the unsuspecting. You're an experienced diver and ought to know
better.

Their playful antics and obvious desire to interact with humans makes them
easier targets than their smiles. But perhaps we underestimate them.
Perhaps they're only pretending to have a good time in captivity so we keep
bringing in more and more of them. When their numbers in captivity reach a
critical mass, they will attack for sure.

Ahh, my very first post, and in the midst of such controversy!

Personally, watching some money grubbing monkeys stuff a bunch of
dolphins into tiny boxes and then stuffing the boxes on a plane makes
me see red. Kinda like watching japanese fishermen hacking at their
backbones, so that the animals will snap their own spinal cords because
of the pain. It all makes me sick to my stomach.

Industrialized, indescriminate slaughter is what puts species on the
endangered list. Because an animal is plentiful, is not a valid reason
to stick it on the chopping block. And this whole 'breakage' thing is
too much. Breakage is what happens to something you drop on the floor.
I'd sure like to subject some of those A-holes to some 'breakage'.
Maybe if I run over someone's dog, or their kid I can call them up and
tell them it was just 'breakage'. Would that make them feel better?
You think that's stupid, a dog or a dolphin or any animal isn't as
valuable as someone's kid? Valuable to who? If you think that way,
take yourself a harpoon or machete and go kill yourself a half dozen
dolphins. See if you can do it.

And the whole thing about introducing animals into foreign environments
is a huge no-no. Why do you think it's illegal to transport fish or
bait from one lake to another? Because it's a bad idea, plain and
simple. For an example, take the introduction of striped bass in Lake
Powell. Maybe we should follow these turkey's example and introduce
Bull Sharks to Powell. Why not?

The thing I suggest is to THINK about something like this. Is this
something you'd like to participate in? Is it something you'd want
your name associated with? Personally, I'd suggest sitting on the edge
of the airfield with a Stinger missile launcher, and take that plane
OUT when it comes in to pick up the critters. Not to sound too
radical, but I would sincerely like to torpedo some whalers and factory
ships while I'm at it.

Really, I'm not a crazy dude, I just think that humans ought to act
better than that.


--
noxioux
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noxioux <noxioux.1qolyy@forums.deeperblue.net> wrote:

> Ahh, my very first post, and in the midst of such controversy!
>
> ...
>
> The thing I suggest is to THINK about something like this. Is this
> something you'd like to participate in? Is it something you'd want
> your name associated with?

So long as there is money to be made, the unfortunate reality is that
there will be people who will try to exploit the situation.

The general problem is that there's always another cruise ship over the
horizon with 100 people who will pay the bucks to go to the Flipper
Show, so there is a revenue source to exploit.

For example, there's a captive dolphin initiative for setting up a
similar "flipper" facility on Grand Cayman.

The latest news that I've heard on the project to bring some captive
Dolphins into a new facility in the Cayman Islands is that it was
approved by the government, but then pretty promptly put on hold because
in their effort to rush it through, they skipped over Environmental
permits, so the approval is on hold while they do their Environmental
Impact studies.


Cynically, its probably only a matter of time until they sort out a way
to say that its okay to proceed. Afterall, quite nearby they have the
turtle farm with a lot more animal poop to dispose of than a claimed
half dozen or so dolphins.


Although it might be possible for a letter-to-the-government campaign to
get some traction with a very blunt message of:

"...I was going to come to your island to help you recover from IVAN
with my tourism dollars, but now that I've learned about this dolphin
thing, I'm giving it second thoughts..."


This might be very timely right now, for the Caymans just recently had
elections and kicked out the prior party. There's also some public
discussion going on about cruise ship dock construction and if they
really want to change to become like another St. Thomas into a cruise
ship whore port...or to stop alienating their overnight customers such
as those of us who will go down for a week at a shot and buy meals and
scuba diving.


-hh