BNG goes to PNG

"Reef Fish" <Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1131378649.833052.219990@g47g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...

> $6000+ for a 10 day cruise is a bit on the steep side, even though
> it's in Oz dollars which put it close to the $4000 USD mark.
>
> I think this will be a cruise that may interest some of the scuba
> divers
> in the US and Canada who may be interested to see the top side of
> PNG besides the diving at the ports of call that are familiar to
> divers.

Why would a real diver spend all that money for a handful of "excursion"
dives when a 10-day trip on the Star Dancer is over $1,000 less?

Greg Mossman wrote:
> "Reef Fish" <Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1131378649.833052.219990@g47g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>
> > $6000+ for a 10 day cruise is a bit on the steep side, even though
> > it's in Oz dollars which put it close to the $4000 USD mark.
> >
> > I think this will be a cruise that may interest some of the scuba
> > divers
> > in the US and Canada who may be interested to see the top side of
> > PNG besides the diving at the ports of call that are familiar to
> > divers.
>
> Why would a real diver spend all that money for a handful of "excursion"

Since you're a real diver NOT, Greg, you'll never know.

Isn't it quite possible that SOME real divers like to see some things
on the
TOP side of travel, and they are not cheapskates like some unemployed
lawyer who spends his entire days in rec.scuba and rec.scuba.locations?


> dives when a 10-day trip on the Star Dancer is over $1,000 less?

Non-sequitur. Suffices to observe that I've been on more Dancers, and
to more Dancer locations you'll be able to afford, in your near or
distant
future in diving.

-- Bob.

"Reef Fish" <Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1131384269.309586.67860@z14g2000cwz.googlegro ups.com...

> Since you're a real diver NOT, Greg, you'll never know.

I guess not. Maybe I need to dive off a cruise ship excursion before I'm
considered a real diver.

> Isn't it quite possible that SOME real divers like to see some things
> on the
> TOP side of travel, and they are not cheapskates like some unemployed
> lawyer who spends his entire days in rec.scuba and rec.scuba.locations?

I'd imagine most real divers prefer to see things on their own, not from the
CONFINES of a cruise ship and its excursions, but perhaps I'm wrong since
I've never dove off a cruise ship excursion before and am therefore not a
REAL diver.

Personally, I draw two word associations with PNG: diving and headhunters.
Since I have no desire to have my head hunted, I'd be going to PNG for the
diving since I'm obviously not a real DIVER. Were I going to PNG for the
diving, I wouldn't do it from the confines of a CRUISE ship, but instead
from the dive deck or skiffs of a small diving liveboard like the Star
Dancer, because as a NON-real DIVER, I'd be able to get in more and far
superior dives than the real divers on the cruise ship EXCURSION.

If I were truly unemployed, I'd do both a liveaboard and some self-guided
land exploration. Since, not being unemployed, I don't have that kind of
time, when I get out to PNG it will be on the Star Dancer with hopefully a
few extra days to "see some things on the TOP side of travel". As I prefer
sharks over headhunters, I'd sacrifice those few extra days in a heartbeat.
As an un-real diver, however, I would never water down both my underwater
and my land excursions by sitting in the confines of a cruise ship internet
cafe all day.

> Non-sequitur. Suffices to observe that I've been on more Dancers, and
> to more Dancer locations you'll be able to afford, in your near or
> distant
> future in diving.

It's only a matter of time. You had a lot of it, being a school teacher
with summer vacations and sabbaticals and now retired, with no more
responsibilities than copying over last year's lecture notes for this year's
class and showing up three days a week for a couple hours to talk about
something no one much cares about. But I'm young and have 30 years ahead of
me, where you're obviously beyond doing any more liveaboard trips and are
living on a fixed income in a slumping economy. I'll catch up in about five
years, guaranteed.

"Greg Mossman" <mossman@qnet.com> wrote in message
news:11mv8jothi0i349@corp.supernews.com...
> "Reef Fish" <Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com> wrote in message

>> Non-sequitur. Suffices to observe that I've been on more Dancers, and
>> to more Dancer locations you'll be able to afford, in your near or
>> distant
>> future in diving.
>
> It's only a matter of time. You had a lot of it, being a school teacher
> with summer vacations and sabbaticals and now retired, with no more
> responsibilities than copying over last year's lecture notes for this
> year's class and showing up three days a week for a couple hours to talk
> about something no one much cares about. But I'm young and have 30 years
> ahead of me, where you're obviously beyond doing any more liveaboard trips
> and are living on a fixed income in a slumping economy. I'll catch up in
> about five years, guaranteed.

For instance:

"We dived only a small portion of the possible dive sites in Bali, all in
one small Nusa Penida Island area, so I am not even sure if the diving
is representative of all diving in Bali. But since I am a Warm Water Wimp,
and the kind of sudden-death currents
are a bit too strenous for senile citizens like myself, and it's so far
to get here, it's unlikely that I'll ever dive Bali again."

-- Reef Fish, 4/26/04

I'm doing a 11-night Bali-Komodo liveaboard in July. By the end of this
summer I'll have done three times as many dives there as you'll ever have
done or will do in the remaining days of your life. And so it goes.

(BTW, that was also the first time you ever saw a Mola Mola, something I've
seen plenty of)

Greg Mossman wrote:
> "Greg Mossman" <mossman@qnet.com> wrote in message
> news:11mv8jothi0i349@corp.supernews.com...
> > "Reef Fish" <Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >> Non-sequitur. Suffices to observe that I've been on more Dancers, and
> >> to more Dancer locations you'll be able to afford, in your near or
> >> distant
> >> future in diving.
> >
> > It's only a matter of time. You had a lot of it, being a school teacher
> > with summer vacations and sabbaticals and now retired, with no more
> > responsibilities than copying over last year's lecture notes for this
> > year's class and showing up three days a week for a couple hours to talk
> > about something no one much cares about.

And you claim to be a LAWYER? With that kind of faulty LOGIC and
inattention to details, no wonder you're unemployed. :^)

You're correct that I am retired -- but why would I have the
responsibility of
copying over last year's or any year's lecture notes for any class any
year?

I gave plenty of lectures to statisticians in sci.stat.math this year
without
any reference books or journals because I had given them all to 10
libraries in China, and I can lecture on any of the more than 100
topics
I lectured to that group this year from long-term comprehension memory
that can be delivered at moment's notice.

And when I was teaching FULL TIME the last decade or so, I only had
to show up TWO half-days a week -- Tuesdays and Thursday mornings.
You obvious missed dozens of those references in the archives.


> > But I'm young and have 30 years
> > ahead of me, where you're obviously beyond doing any more liveaboard trips
> > and are living on a fixed income in a slumping economy. I'll catch up in
> > about five years, guaranteed.

You're youngER and much less experienced -- that's about all you can
say.


> For instance:
>
> "We dived only a small portion of the possible dive sites in Bali, all in
> one small Nusa Penida Island area, so I am not even sure if the diving
> is representative of all diving in Bali. But since I am a Warm Water Wimp,
> and the kind of sudden-death currents
> are a bit too strenous for senile citizens like myself, and it's so far
> to get here, it's unlikely that I'll ever dive Bali again."
>
> -- Reef Fish, 4/26/04

Good pick. It shows my healthy sense of HUMOR and diving reality
that goes with my ONLY scuba diving rule for anyone, "Know YOUR
limit, and dive WITHIN it."

I've dived in much more swift currents than those in Bali within the
past five years. Bali diving is really no big deal. It's not worth all
the
TRAVEL hassle to get there just to do a few drift dives of mediocre
quality.


> I'm doing a 11-night Bali-Komodo liveaboard in July.

That's a guarantee that you'll NOT be doing any really swift currents
or the best dives. It's catered to the lowest common-denominator, such
as yourself.

Just like the Tahiti Aggressor you were on, a few months after I dived
on it. The 12-knot current of the passes were nothing but hype and f
iction to scare off clueless newbies on board from diving them.

You can dive another 30 years and you'll NOT have dived in as many
islands of the French Polynesia as I've done within a period of about 4
years. About two dozen islands, because I was on FOUR different
itineraries of the Tahitian (misnomer) cruises, and TWO of those four
are no longer offered. Diving on some of those islands are much
more exciting and rewarding than diving in Bali.

> By the end of this
> summer I'll have done three times as many dives there as you'll ever have
> done or will do in the remaining days of your life. And so it goes.

What about French Polynesia? How many of its islands will you
do in the remaining days of you life? You were the "Anti-Aldora
IDIOT" clueless newbie only a couple years ago. You think
you'll live long enough to do 1,000 dives in Cozumel, let alone the
1,200 at which I stopped counting in 2002?


> (BTW, that was also the first time you ever saw a Mola Mola, something I've
> seen plenty of)

True. I have also seen DOZENS and DOZENS of other exotic
marine life you've never seen and will never see. You think you'll
live long enough to make a dive in Easter Island?

You're scuba talk only fools other newbies who are more clueless
than you are. But at least you're talking SCUBA, unlike Ron Lee,
Alan Street, and Lee Bell who are spewing only non-scuba nonsense.

I have already given my assessment that Lee Bell's diving experience
is not even in the same league as yours, even thought you've been
diving only a few years -- based on the locations in which you've
dived.

You should ravel in that compliment of mine, and not exaggerate
the limits of your diving experience.

-- Bob.

At Sea heading to Majahual, where diving is for Clueless Newbies
and baby sardines.

If you guys could quit having a pissing contest, i would be interested
in the dives done in French Polynesia. I dove PNG in August on a land
package at the Tawali, built by the owners of Oceanic. Great diving!

thanx, shawn

"shawnabbtt" <shawnabbtt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1131452095.758341.66450@g44g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> If you guys could quit having a pissing contest, i would be interested
> in the dives done in French Polynesia. I dove PNG in August on a land
> package at the Tawali, built by the owners of Oceanic. Great diving!

French Polynesia, aka "Tahiti", covers five large island groups spread over
almost a million square miles of the Pacific. Therefore, your request is a
bit broad.

The "main" islands of FP are the Society Islands, which includes the
Windward Islands (Tahiti, Moorea, etc.) and the Leeward Islands (Bora Bora,
Huahine, etc.). The Tuamotu Atolls lie to the northeast. Most people
arrive in Papeete, Tahiti by air, an 8 (+/- .5) hour flight from LAX.
Travel to the other islands can be done by air or sea. Reef Fish has posted
several times about the interisland cruising available there which you can
easily Google.

My experiences are limited to diving one of the Society Islands, Moorea, and
diving several of the Tuamotu Atolls off the Tahiti Aggressor (I believe we
hit five of them). The Aggressor is based on the largest of the Atolls,
Rangiroa, accessed by a 2 hour flight from Papeete. Rangiroa has several
hotels with their own dive operations, and is suitable for land-based
diving. The Blue Dolphin dive shop at the Kia Ora hotel is
rebreather-friendly as well, with rental Draegers and Inspirations in stock.
The diving of Rangiroa, as is the case with the other atolls, some
uninhabited, that the Aggressor visits, primarily features "diving the
cut" - i.e., high speed drift diving through the gap in the reef during
tidal changes. The Aggressor has termed this "pass flying" and offers a TDI
specialty card for those who collect them. In addition to the adrenalin
charge from the "flying", the atolls are teeming with reef sharks, and other
big animals (turtles, various rays, Napolean wrasses, titan triggerfish) are
frequently spotted. I had some issues with the boat and the French DM when
we went, but I've spoken to others who have been on the boat more recently
and had none of the problems I encountered.

Moorea, like the atolls, is a hard coral reef. Like Hawaii, the FP islands
are too remote for soft corals to have found their niche. Personally, I
find this a bit monotonous. The Tuamotus make up for it in the diverse and
prolific sea life. Moorea, on the other hand, being much more developed and
probably much more fished out than the Atolls, lacks in marine life as well.
Without much marine life and with monotonous coral, I found the diving there
to be a bit boring. However, there are sharks. Locals feed the blacktips,
so they're very plentiful especially if you get under a local boat when
they're "chumming" with chicken. As harmless as the scavengers are, my
heart skipped a few beats when I realized I was the centerpiece of a feeding
frenzy as I was ascending to the wrong boat. The main attraction of Moorea
is the large population of "tame" lemon sharks. Unlike other mean and
vicious lemon sharks, these big guys apparently don't bite. They look like
big fat grey reef sharks. I wasn't too impressed, but then we had just come
from week of diving the Tuamotus so I was a bit jaded.

I was asking from a blurb by Bob, about French Polynesia...broad or
not...

"You can dive another 30 years and you'll NOT have dived in as many
islands of the French Polynesia as I've done within a period of about 4

years. About two dozen islands, because I was on FOUR different
itineraries of the Tahitian (misnomer) cruises, and TWO of those four
are no longer offered. Diving on some of those islands are much
more exciting and rewarding than diving in Bali. "

Greg Mossman wrote:
> "shawnabbtt" <shawnabbtt@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1131452095.758341.66450@g44g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> > If you guys could quit having a pissing contest, i would be interested
> > in the dives done in French Polynesia. I dove PNG in August on a land
> > package at the Tawali, built by the owners of Oceanic. Great diving!
>
> French Polynesia, aka "Tahiti", covers five large island groups spread over
> almost a million square miles of the Pacific. Therefore, your request is a
> bit broad.

That is incorrect. Tahiti is just one of the islands in the Society
Islands
group of French Polynesia. See the brief geographical description in
the post "Cruising and Diving in French Polynesia (LONG)" I posted in
2003.

> Reef Fish has posted
> several times about the interisland cruising available there which you can
> easily Google.

http://tinyurl.com/buh53

The post describes specifically the Marquesus itinerary, which is, IMO,
the
best of the FIVE different itineraries I've dived the French Polynesian
on the
Princess Cruise line.

Probably because of the lack of a market for some of the other
itineraries
(getting to Pepeete could cost more than the price of a 10-day cruise
itself),
the only itineraries that are still offered are the Marquesus and and
Cook
Islands.

Marquesus is by far the better of the two.


>
> My experiences are limited to diving one of the Society Islands, Moorea, and
> diving several of the Tuamotu Atolls off the Tahiti Aggressor (I believe we
> hit five of them). The Aggressor is based on the largest of the Atolls,
> Rangiroa, accessed by a 2 hour flight from Papeete. Rangiroa has several
> hotels with their own dive operations, and is suitable for land-based
> diving. The Blue Dolphin dive shop at the Kia Ora hotel is
> rebreather-friendly as well, with rental Draegers and Inspirations in stock.

For years, Rangiroa has been known as the place for "shark diving", and
probably the best known of the FP islands besides Tahiti and Bora Bora.

The Tahiti Aggressor based its itinerary on the Tuamotu island group in
which Rangiroa belongs and for publicity reasons hypes the several
passes it dives, to have currents up to 12 knots -- probably on Tuesday
nights every leap year when there is blue moon.


> The diving of Rangiroa, as is the case with the other atolls, some
> uninhabited, that the Aggressor visits, primarily features "diving the
> cut" - i.e., high speed drift diving through the gap in the reef during
> tidal changes. The Aggressor has termed this "pass flying" and offers a TDI
> specialty card for those who collect them. In addition to the adrenalin
> charge from the "flying", the atolls are teeming with reef sharks, and other
> big animals (turtles, various rays, Napolean wrasses, titan triggerfish) are
> frequently spotted. I had some issues with the boat and the French DM when
> we went, but I've spoken to others who have been on the boat more recently
> and had none of the problems I encountered.

The problem was problem with Greg, as his problem in the first time he
ever dived with Aldora. The French DM is Pierre who is by far
the
most experienced of the DMs on the Tahiti Aggressor. He is a local who

knows the ins and outs of the diving there, and is what I call a "crazy
guy"
when it comes to chasing sharks. Look up my Tahiti Aggressor report
about my dives with Pierre. Never had any problem with him. In fact
on
several pass dives with current ripping up to about 6 knots (that was
about tops), I was the only one who could stick with Pierre.

But the Tuamotu diving, except for the thrill of the roller coster
rides on
a couple of passes, doesn't compare to many of the FP islands, even as
far as SHARK diving is concerned. Both Moorea and Bora Bora have
better shark dives (and more variety of sharks) than Rangiroa.

>
> Moorea, like the atolls, is a hard coral reef. Like Hawaii, the FP islands
> are too remote for soft corals to have found their niche. Personally, I
> find this a bit monotonous. The Tuamotus make up for it in the diverse and
> prolific sea life. Moorea, on the other hand, being much more developed and
> probably much more fished out than the Atolls, lacks in marine life as well.
> Without much marine life and with monotonous coral, I found the diving there
> to be a bit boring. However, there are sharks. Locals feed the blacktips,
> so they're very plentiful especially if you get under a local boat when
> they're "chumming" with chicken. As harmless as the scavengers are, my
> heart skipped a few beats when I realized I was the centerpiece of a feeding
> frenzy as I was ascending to the wrong boat. The main attraction of Moorea
> is the large population of "tame" lemon sharks. Unlike other mean and
> vicious lemon sharks, these big guys apparently don't bite. They look like
> big fat grey reef sharks. I wasn't too impressed, but then we had just come
> from week of diving the Tuamotus so I was a bit jaded.

Moorea is one of the few dive locations in FP that you can count on
seeing lemon sharks. They actually look more like bull sharks than
grey reef sharks, and Greg probably couldn't tell the difference
between
them.

My favorite dive of the 20 or so ISLANDS in the French Polynesia was
the dive in Nuku Hiva of the Marquesas group. Not only three
hammerheads showed up, we spent the rest of the dive looking at
huge mantas that were not regular visitors to that site.

When I dived Coco's island in 1992, one of the divers was a famous
Japanese photographer and scuba-magazine publisher. When asked
what his favorite dive location was, he immediately said "French
Polynesia".
The significance of his assessment didn't sink in until I've dived the
islands of FP, many of which would have been very inaccessible without
being on the itinerary of Princess cruises.

I am quite sure that French Polynesian diving is not nearly as well
known
as many other inferior dive locations is that it is not easy to GET
THERE.

I highly recommend French Polynesia diving to anyone -- whether diving
from cruise ships (book your own) or from land.

-- Bob.

"Reef Fish" <Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1131475926.103802.290710@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...

>> French Polynesia, aka "Tahiti", covers five large island groups spread
>> over
>> almost a million square miles of the Pacific. Therefore, your request is
>> a
>> bit broad.
>
> That is incorrect. Tahiti is just one of the islands in the Society
> Islands
> group of French Polynesia. See the brief geographical description in
> the post "Cruising and Diving in French Polynesia (LONG)" I posted in
> 2003.

That is incorrect. Tahiti is the name commonly given (by Americans, at
least) to the islands of French Polynesia, just like Hawaii is the name
given to the group of Hawaiian islands, only one of which is actually named
Hawaii. "aka" means "also known as". If you are claiming that French
Polynesia is not also known as Tahiti then you couldn't be more incorrect as
usual.

For instance, the Tahiti Tourisme site covers all of French Polynesia, not
just the island of Tahiti. www.tahiti-tourisme.com

From Air Tahiti Nui, the national airline of French Polynesia (note that
it's not called Air French Polynesia Nui): "Select from one of the
all-inclusive packages offered by our Tahiti Vacations specialists for a
fantastic travel experience to Tahiti, Moorea, Bora Bora and the other
islands of the South Pacific. Whether you are planning for a honeymoon,
cruise or diving trip, Tahiti and her islands are the perfect spot to unwind
and spend your vacations."

http://airtahitinui-usa.com/specials....asp?keyref=ov

Why would anyone contact a Tahiti Vacations specialist if they were
interested in Bora Bora unless Bora Bora was commonly considered part of
"Tahiti"?

I could go on and on in the same vein. You are clearly wrong.

> For years, Rangiroa has been known as the place for "shark diving", and
> probably the best known of the FP islands besides Tahiti and Bora Bora.
>
> The Tahiti Aggressor based its itinerary on the Tuamotu island group in
> which Rangiroa belongs and for publicity reasons hypes the several
> passes it dives, to have currents up to 12 knots -- probably on Tuesday
> nights every leap year when there is blue moon.

How can they call it the Tahiti Aggressor when it doesn't go to Tahiti?

Besides, I know accuracy isn't exactly your strong point, but where did you
get that Aggressor hypes 12-knot currents? I had heard 5-6 knots maximum
and we experienced what we guessed to be 5. The Aggressor website states:
"The Tuamotu's strong currents, 3-5 knots, may not be suitable for beginner
divers." 3-5 is much less than 12, even for a statistician.

> The problem was problem with Greg, as his problem in the first time he
> ever dived with Aldora. The French DM is Pierre who is by far
> the
> most experienced of the DMs on the Tahiti Aggressor. He is a local who
> knows the ins and outs of the diving there, and is what I call a "crazy
> guy"
> when it comes to chasing sharks. Look up my Tahiti Aggressor report
> about my dives with Pierre. Never had any problem with him. In fact
> on
> several pass dives with current ripping up to about 6 knots (that was
> about tops), I was the only one who could stick with Pierre.

Funny that you think the problem was mine alone. I was on a fam trip with a
group of primarily dive shop owners, many of whom had thousands of dives
under their belts, and far more experience world-wide than you. Complaints
about Pierre were uniform. The entire crew has changed since we were on the
boat, including Pierre. When we were on the boat, several of the crew
confided to us that Pierre was forced upon them because they were required
to have at least one French divemaster aboard, even though Pierre's former
diving experience was limited to commercial diving and he knew absolutely
squat about the reefs. None of us had problems sticking with Pierre, if you
like kicking against strong current half the dive to see absolutely nothing
more, and usually much less, than what the other group would see sticking
with one of the other DMs with much less effort. By the end of the trip,
Pierre was diving alone.

> But the Tuamotu diving, except for the thrill of the roller coster
> rides on
> a couple of passes, doesn't compare to many of the FP islands, even as
> far as SHARK diving is concerned. Both Moorea and Bora Bora have
> better shark dives (and more variety of sharks) than Rangiroa.

You've admitted to missing the shark stampede at Apataki. Maybe that's
because you were diving with Pierre. Any comparison between the sharks of
the Moorea and the sharks of the Tuamotus is like comparing the dive at
Disneyworld to real reef diving.

> Moorea is one of the few dive locations in FP that you can count on
> seeing lemon sharks. They actually look more like bull sharks than
> grey reef sharks, and Greg probably couldn't tell the difference
> between
> them.

Probably not. Honestly, all sharks look alike to me.