Palau Diving

> >
> >
> As I said, I hoped your tried the Palau Aggressor or the Peter
> Hughes Sun Dancer. Appareently you never did, and is still whining
> about the Rainbow Hunter (which is ok), but wtill whining about Palau
> liveaboard diving -- of which you seemed to know NOTHING -- other
> than that one trip on the Rainbow Hunter, which is not what one
> expects of an informed diver.
>
No, have not tried Dancers or Aggressors. I like unrestricted diving.
Can't understand why you say I'm whining about Palau liveaboard diving
- I whined only that the OCEAN (not Rainbow) Hunter did not do a full
itinerary while I was on her. That, according to the skipper, was
because we had an OW on board. So much for their marketing their trips
as "experienced level".
> >
> >
> > Got to see Truk (sorry, Chuuk) on the Odyssey last October. Now THAT
> > was some trip!!!! We were taken everywhere.
>
> What has THAT got to do with Palau?

That has to do with comparison. A valid one too IMO.
>
> Also if you review the postings about Truk (Chuuk) liveaboard diving,
> you'll find other liveaboards in Chuuk besides the Odyssey. The
> Thorfinn, e.g., has had numerous fans and raving reviews.
>
I assure you I am very familiar with liveaboard ops. in Chuuk, and
worldwide for that matter. FYI the week I was in Chuuk there were six
on the Aggressor, ONE on the Thorfinn. We had ten on the Odyssey. The
choice of boat is a purely personal one, and I don't always get it
right, as my original post shows. That's bad luck, not lack of
research/knowledge.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Nigel - still diving after all those years .....
>
> Likewise.

Then you should have no probloem understanding where I am coming from.
Adios
>
Nigel

seadeuce@oceanfree.net (Nigel) pounded away at his keyboard resulting
in:
:No, have not tried Dancers or Aggressors. I like unrestricted diving.

Then you might not like the Aggressors or Dancers in Palau. The
diving is from skiffs, which is certainly not unrestricted.


Dan Bracuk
Is it my imagination, or do Buffalo Wings taste like chicken?
The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/


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"Dan Bracuk" <NOTbracuk@pathcom.com> wrote in message
news:t2som0piugahe0m28l4k3m909bkrhm4q0f@4ax.com...
> seadeuce@oceanfree.net (Nigel) pounded away at his keyboard resulting
> in:
> :No, have not tried Dancers or Aggressors. I like unrestricted diving.
>
> Then you might not like the Aggressors or Dancers in Palau. The
> diving is from skiffs, which is certainly not unrestricted.

Likewise the Thorfinn.

"Greg Mossman" <mossman@qnet.com> wrote in message news:<416bf5e2$0$104$6c56adcd@news.qnet.com>...
> "Reef Fish" <Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:8fb7380b.0410112147.564ea84f@posting.google.c om...
>
> > Also if you review the postings about Truk (Chuuk) liveaboard diving,
> > you'll find other liveaboards in Chuuk besides the Odyssey. The
> > Thorfinn, e.g., has had numerous fans and raving reviews.
>
> The Thorfinn only counts its fans and raving reviews from those who haven't
> been on the Odyssey.

Have you or Nigel been on both?

This was all Nigel raved about the Odyssay -- they were taken "everywhere".

Nigel> Now THAT was some trip!!!! We were taken everywhere.


Did the Odyssay dive ALL the wrecks dived by passengers on the Thorfinn?
Unlikely. Then where is "everywhere"? How many wrecks can you possibly
dive in Chuuk in a week without turning yourself into a prezel if you
dive a good number of the 180 wrecks visited by the Thorfinn?


My liking of Chuuk/Truk is evidenced by the statement I've made many
times to my experienced diving friends -- If someone gives me a free
berth on a liveaboard to dive the wrecks in Truk, I wouldn't do it.

That's how much I like wreck diving and Chuuk.


You think the Odyssay is the cat's meow (I know, I know; you favor
cats because you share your cat's food) because it goes "everywhere"
like Nigel says too?

Did it go to Palau (from Chuuk)? Palau has more wrecks than the
Truk Lagoon, ya know? ;^)

-- Bob.



-- Bob.

seadeuce@oceanfree.net (Nigel) wrote in message news:<1f1f5620.0410121531.482ebf0b@posting.google. com>...
> > >
> > >
> > As I said, I hoped your tried the Palau Aggressor or the Peter
> > Hughes Sun Dancer. Appareently you never did, and is still whining
> > about the Rainbow Hunter (which is ok), but wtill whining about Palau
> > liveaboard diving -- of which you seemed to know NOTHING -- other
> > than that one trip on the Rainbow Hunter, which is not what one
> > expects of an informed diver.
> >
> No, have not tried Dancers or Aggressors.

Figures.

> I like unrestricted diving.

So do I. If you are known to be experienced and capable, you generally
get to do what you lke to do on those fleets. I recall diving the
vertical Ngemelis Wall to its ledge at 180 fsw. It's in my 1998 trip
report on the Sun Dancer.


> Can't understand why you say I'm whining about Palau liveaboard diving
> - I whined only that the OCEAN (not Rainbow) Hunter did not do a full
> itinerary while I was on her.

I stand corrected. You were whining about the OCEAN Hunter in your
original post. But subsequently, you were whining and slaming the
Rainbow Hunter, even though you had never dived it:

Nigel> As I said, never saw the best Palau had to offer. The Captain
Nigel> had only one thing on his mind - Rainbow Hunter, a flying
Nigel> boat no less, due for start up in '97. Doubt if it was a
Nigel> long-term success.


> That, according to the skipper, was
> because we had an OW on board. So much for their marketing their trips
> as "experienced level".

What's an OW?


> > > Got to see Truk (sorry, Chuuk) on the Odyssey last October. Now THAT
> > > was some trip!!!! We were taken everywhere.
> >
> > What has THAT got to do with Palau?
>
> That has to do with comparison. A valid one too IMO.

Completely DIFFERENT locations, sites, dives. IMNSHO.

> >
> > Also if you review the postings about Truk (Chuuk) liveaboard diving,
> > you'll find other liveaboards in Chuuk besides the Odyssey. The
> > Thorfinn, e.g., has had numerous fans and raving reviews.
> >
> I assure you I am very familiar with liveaboard ops. in Chuuk, and
> worldwide for that matter. FYI the week I was in Chuuk there were six
> on the Aggressor, ONE on the Thorfinn. We had ten on the Odyssey.

What does THAT prove? Absolutely nothing about quality of the diving
or anything else.

> The
> choice of boat is a purely personal one, and I don't always get it
> right, as my original post shows. That's bad luck, not lack of
> research/knowledge.

But you had planty of opportunity to chance your bad luck first
experience. But you chose NOT to try any of the other liveaboards,
and whine about the first, and the other Hunter boat you had not
even seen or dived on.

Some people are good at MAKING bad luck for themselves.


> > > Nigel - still diving after all those years .....
> >
> > Likewise.
>
> Then you should have no probloem understanding where I am coming from.
> Adios

Norway? I do have trouble understanding your diving preference
and approach.

-- Bob.

"Reef Fish" <Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8fb7380b.0410121922.8928cce@posting.google.co m...

> You think the Odyssay is the cat's meow (I know, I know; you favor
> cats because you share your cat's food) because it goes "everywhere"
> like Nigel says too?

No, I liked the Odyssey because the spacious accomodations, good food, and
free booze. It was kept immaculate. Reports from the Thorfinn have been
less than glamorous, while the Odyssey draws few complaints. Perhaps few
people have been on both, but when you hear complaints on one side versus
nothing but praise on the other, it doesn't take a doctor of statistics to
draw a conclusion.

"Greg Mossman" <mossman@qnet.com> wrote in message news:<416d500a$0$104$6c56adcd@news.qnet.com>...
> "Reef Fish" <Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:8fb7380b.0410121922.8928cce@posting.google.co m...
>
> > You think the Odyssay is the cat's meow (I know, I know; you favor
> > cats because you share your cat's food) because it goes "everywhere"
> > like Nigel says too?
>
> No, I liked the Odyssey because the spacious accomodations, good food, and
> free booze. It was kept immaculate.

All good reasons. The Odyssay is a much newer vessel than the Thorfinn
which must be nearly as old as me, so the differences in some of these
respects are to be expected.

There ain't no such thing as a "free lunch", nor "free booze", but AFAIK
the are "free" on the Aggressor and Peter Hughes Fleets. Since I don't
drink, your "free booze" was subsized by me.


> Reports from the Thorfinn have been
> less than glamorous, while the Odyssey draws few complaints.

New vs old.


> Perhaps few
> people have been on both, but when you hear complaints on one side versus
> nothing but praise on the other, it doesn't take a doctor of statistics to
> draw a conclusion.

True. But what about DIVING?

From what I heard from those who dived the Thorfinn, they dived the
"best" wrecks in Chuuk, and cover an extensive collection of the wrecks.

Neither Nigel nor you said anything about the QUALITY of the wrecks
and the diving, other than Nigel saying "the Odyssay goes everywhere".

Some avid divers would go for the quality of the DIVES and are willing
to forego some luxury living and boozing. That's why I questioned
Nigel's extravagent claims with little or no information to back
himself up.

You provided some of the valid reasons, but still lacking in the
part that most folks care the most about when they go on a liveaboard
to dive -- the DIVING.

As such, only those who have been on BOTH vessels can give credible
and informative comparison of the diving aspects of them.

-- Bob.

Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com (Reef Fish) pounded away at his
keyboard resulting in:
: If someone gives me a free
:berth on a liveaboard to dive the wrecks in Truk, I wouldn't do it.

But you could give it to me.

Dan Bracuk
Is it my imagination, or do Buffalo Wings taste like chicken?
The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/


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>
> > I like unrestricted diving.
>
> So do I. If you are known to be experienced and capable, you generally
> get to do what you lke to do on those fleets. I recall diving the
> vertical Ngemelis Wall to its ledge at 180 fsw. It's in my 1998 trip
> report on the Sun Dancer.
>
You can't dive Peleliu if you are not brought to the site. That was
the whole point of my original post! The damn boat didn't go there
because of an OW (Open Water) grade diver aboard. Maybe the six Japs
who went missing not long before my trip had something to do with the
captain's decision, I don't know.


> I stand corrected. You were whining about the OCEAN Hunter in your
> original post. But subsequently, you were whining and slaming the
> Rainbow Hunter, even though you had never dived it:
>
> Nigel> As I said, never saw the best Palau had to offer. The Captain
> Nigel> had only one thing on his mind - Rainbow Hunter, a flying
> Nigel> boat no less, due for start up in '97. Doubt if it was a
> Nigel> long-term success.
>
I mentioned the R.H. because the captain never stopped talking about
it throughout the week we were there. To say he was pre-occupied would
be to understate the fact. I slammed the CAPTAIN, not the diving, not
the boat, not the R.H.
BTW Ngemelis was one of the best dives we did on that trip, Pyramids
everywhere.
>
>>
> What's an OW?

Explained above.
>
>
> > > > Got to see Truk (sorry, Chuuk) on the Odyssey last October. Now THAT
> > > > was some trip!!!! We were taken everywhere.
> > >
> > > What has THAT got to do with Palau?
> >
> > That has to do with comparison. A valid one too IMO.
>
> Completely DIFFERENT locations, sites, dives. IMNSHO.

But a captain that arranged diving to suit EVERYONE - that was my
comparison. Palau's wrecks are okay, but the Malakal vis is not up to
what I saw in Chuuk.
>
> > >
> > > Also if you review the postings about Truk (Chuuk) liveaboard diving,
> > > you'll find other liveaboards in Chuuk besides the Odyssey. The
> > > Thorfinn, e.g., has had numerous fans and raving reviews.
> > >
> > I assure you I am very familiar with liveaboard ops. in Chuuk, and
> > worldwide for that matter. FYI the week I was in Chuuk there were six
> > on the Aggressor, ONE on the Thorfinn. We had ten on the Odyssey.
>
> What does THAT prove? Absolutely nothing about quality of the diving
> or anything else.
It is evidence of popularity among divers, aka market share. "Raves"
are often printed to try to recover market share, but don't always
tell the whole truth about their subject. The proof is in the eating.
>
> > The
> > choice of boat is a purely personal one, and I don't always get it
> > right, as my original post shows. That's bad luck, not lack of
> > research/knowledge.
>
> But you had planty of opportunity to chance your bad luck first
> experience. But you chose NOT to try any of the other liveaboards,
> and whine about the first, and the other Hunter boat you had not
> even seen or dived on.

Again, I whined about the captain only. The other Hunter boat flew
BTW.
>
> Some people are good at MAKING bad luck for themselves.

I guess I am human, and responsible for my choice. Overall I can say
my choices have been more good than bad. That's why I keep going.
>
>
> > > > Nigel - still diving after all those years .....
> > >
> > > Likewise.
> >
> > Then you should have no probloem understanding where I am coming from.
> > Adios
>
> Norway? I do have trouble understanding your diving preference
> and approach.

Have had good diving in Norway too, on two occasions. Sorry we have
different understandings and approaches. Let's just accept that as a
fact, because by trying to justify one's preferences it can become
contentious. Enjoy your diving Bob, and I will sure as hell try to
enjoy mine.
Matter of fact, I have a day's diving tomorrow. Lovely cold water,
only 80ft or so, but better than a day at the office.

Slainte (that's Irish for "to your health")

Seadeuce
>

seadeuce@oceanfree.net (Nigel) wrote in message news:<1f1f5620.0410131648.269ca535@posting.google. com>...
> >
> > > I like unrestricted diving.
> >
> > So do I. If you are known to be experienced and capable, you generally
> > get to do what you lke to do on those fleets. I recall diving the
> > vertical Ngemelis Wall to its ledge at 180 fsw. It's in my 1998 trip
> > report on the Sun Dancer.
> >
> You can't dive Peleliu if you are not brought to the site. That was
> the whole point of my original post! The damn boat didn't go there
> because of an OW (Open Water) grade diver aboard.

I think you mean an inexperienced OW certified diver without any
higher level certification card. The practice is certainly not
true of the Aggressor or the Peter Hughes Fleet, and would indeed
be an indictment against the Ocean Hunter or the Hunter Fleet if
that's their policy.

> Maybe the six Japs
> who went missing not long before my trip had something to do with the
> captain's decision, I don't know.

It was two YEARS before your 1996 trip. THey were not missing
anymore. They were known dead, and the diary of one of the dead
divers adrift had been found, detailing his ordeal on the drift
that lasted more than 4 days.

The incident had NOTHING to do with any liveaboard or competent
day-trip operation. It was the result of a day-boat operation
on a boat without a radio, no back up motor -- an accident
waiting to happen, and it did.


> > I stand corrected. You were whining about the OCEAN Hunter in your
> > original post. But subsequently, you were whining and slaming the
> > Rainbow Hunter, even though you had never dived it:
> >
> > Nigel> As I said, never saw the best Palau had to offer. The Captain
> > Nigel> had only one thing on his mind - Rainbow Hunter, a flying
> > Nigel> boat no less, due for start up in '97. Doubt if it was a
> > Nigel> long-term success.
> >
> I mentioned the R.H. because the captain never stopped talking about
> it throughout the week we were there. To say he was pre-occupied would
> be to understate the fact. I slammed the CAPTAIN, not the diving, not
> the boat, not the R.H.

Okay. Glad you clarified it. But you were certainly slaming the
Hunter Fleet, if not directly, then it would be by implication, IMO.

> BTW Ngemelis was one of the best dives we did on that trip, Pyramids
> everywhere.

That would be a different Ngemelis dive. You won't see any Pyramid
on the Ngemelis Wall dive. It's nothing but a vertical WALL, which
starts at the surface of the Ngemelis island, with spectacular
undercuts, and drops down to 180 fsw before you see the first ledge.



> > > > > Got to see Truk (sorry, Chuuk) on the Odyssey last October. Now THAT
> > > > > was some trip!!!! We were taken everywhere.
> > > >
> > > > What has THAT got to do with Palau?
> > >
> > > That has to do with comparison. A valid one too IMO.
> >
> > Completely DIFFERENT locations, sites, dives. IMNSHO.
>
> But a captain that arranged diving to suit EVERYONE - that was my
> comparison. Palau's wrecks are okay, but the Malakal vis is not up to
> what I saw in Chuuk.

That was your unfortunate one-time experience on the Ocean Hunter
in Palau. It was neither indicative of liveaboard diving in Palau
nor comparable to diving in Chuuk. That was my point.



> > > > Also if you review the postings about Truk (Chuuk) liveaboard diving,
> > > > you'll find other liveaboards in Chuuk besides the Odyssey. The
> > > > Thorfinn, e.g., has had numerous fans and raving reviews.
> > > >
> > > I assure you I am very familiar with liveaboard ops. in Chuuk, and
> > > worldwide for that matter. FYI the week I was in Chuuk there were six
> > > on the Aggressor, ONE on the Thorfinn. We had ten on the Odyssey.
> >
> > What does THAT prove? Absolutely nothing about quality of the diving
> > or anything else.
> It is evidence of popularity among divers, aka market share. "Raves"
> are often printed to try to recover market share, but don't always
> tell the whole truth about their subject. The proof is in the eating.

You mean the proof is in the pudding? But your "populatity"
data of your week is hardly typical. The Thorfinn has been around
for years, and so has the Truk Aggressor. They could not stay in
business that long with 1 or 6 divers per week. :)



> > > The
> > > choice of boat is a purely personal one, and I don't always get it
> > > right, as my original post shows. That's bad luck, not lack of
> > > research/knowledge.
> >
> > But you had planty of opportunity to chance your bad luck first
> > experience. But you chose NOT to try any of the other liveaboards,
> > and whine about the first, and the other Hunter boat you had not
> > even seen or dived on.
>
> Again, I whined about the captain only. The other Hunter boat flew
> BTW.

We agree about the whine part anyway.


> > Some people are good at MAKING bad luck for themselves.
>
> I guess I am human, and responsible for my choice. Overall I can say
> my choices have been more good than bad. That's why I keep going.
> >
> >
> > > > > Nigel - still diving after all those years .....
> > > >
> > > > Likewise.
> > >
> > > Then you should have no probloem understanding where I am coming from.
> > > Adios
> >
> > Norway? I do have trouble understanding your diving preference
> > and approach.
>
> Have had good diving in Norway too, on two occasions. Sorry we have
> different understandings and approaches. Let's just accept that as a
> fact, because by trying to justify one's preferences it can become
> contentious. Enjoy your diving Bob, and I will sure as hell try to
> enjoy mine.

That's a good way to agree on our disagreement.


> Matter of fact, I have a day's diving tomorrow. Lovely cold water,
> only 80ft or so, but better than a day at the office.

I'll be dry till some diving in Nassau and the Caribbean in a couple
of weeks. I am a confirmed Warm Water Wimp, and am pretty choosy
on where I dive, even in warm water -- as I mentioned in a
different thread, I'll skip the diving in Barbados even though
I'll have all my dive gears. Reason? Lousy warm water diving
there.


> Slainte (that's Irish for "to your health")
>
> Seadeuce

Aloha, Shalom, ... bon bini, etc.

Da Feeesh et Le Poisson.