PNG: dive Madang

Has anyone been to Madang recently? Am off there in April and am interested
in finding out as much as possible and where the best diving is.

Thanks

Mike

"the quarry" is a fabulous dive...not far from Madang, heading up the New Guinea
coast towards Hansa Bay. No, it is not an actual "quarry" but a spot further up
the coast (about 5/10 miles)-- I understand that the name comes from a "quarry"
that is inland, but nearby off the coast road. There's a wreck there at this
dive site (a small boat at 90 feet). There's quite a bit of current there since
the "quarry" is located on a point along the coast that jutts out into the
ocean. There were some astonding things there, a kind of coral that looked like
a "gold carpet." In 25 years of diving in the Pacific -- I've never encountered
anything like that since. It was a true "carpet of glory." Also, at the edge
of the "carpet of glory" there was a huge white fan that was to "die for." It
was an u/w photographer's dream come-true.

There used to be a dive operation (Jais Aben) in Madang but haven't heard much
of it for some time. Are they still in business? I once stayed with them and
dived the area on another trip. That they had a dive-master there in residence
was an on-and-off thing. You really had to contact them in advance and tell
them you were coming. Madang is one of the few places along the coast of this
big island where large muddy rivers are not befouling the vis. Of course,
there's the Sepik, a Mississippi-sized muddy river that empties into the ocean
that stains the water along the coast for miles. The mouth of the Sepik is some
distance from Madang -- but still!

Much nearer to Madang, is another sizeable muddy river whose name begins with
the letter "R" (can't think of what it is called right now) that empties in to
the ocean, but the places along the coast that are suitable with excellent u/w
vis are few and far between. I was on a dive charter with Chris Newbert where
we dived along the coast of Papua New Guinea around Madang, including that
volcanic island off New Guinea (whose name escapes me--was it Kau-Kau or
something like that?) and we motered all the way out to the Hermit Islands.
There were some beautiful spots up in the lonely Hermits (that's getting quite a
ways out from the coast of New Guinea). This Chris Newbert led dive tour was
long before he had his own dive touring company and he took out groups or was a
"dive tour leader" for Sea & See. For some reason (perhaps vanity), Chris
Newbert wants to forget his salad days as a dive tour leader for hire and has
"select memory" when the subject is brought up.

Michael Short wrote:

> Has anyone been to Madang recently? Am off there in April and am interested
> in finding out as much as possible and where the best diving is.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike

I guess you would want to be one of Chris's "groupies." And why, prey tell,
are you so defensive about Chris. Do you have a crush on him, did he tickle
your fancy? If he has a "loyal, high paying clientelle" are we to be
intimindated by that? Just because George Bush won the last election -- do I
have to like him? Because he had a lot of rich friends who plunked down huge
sums of money to fund his campaign? Having a rich clientelle apparentlly
impresses you -- which says more about the kind of person you are than anything
else you have said!

I get it! According to your mentality, people only have worth when they're
filthy rich! That may define you -- but it does not define me! I went on that
Sea & Sea trip, as I had done on many, many others, to see a different part of
the u/w world. I didn't go along as a Chris "groupie" or to secretly espy his
techniques.

But you admit you never went on one of his tours ...so what do you know and how
do you know it? Did you brush against him at a convention for a few minutes to
tell him how wonderful he was?

I have been on a tour with him. Why should Chris Newbert be a "monstre sacre"
on this board, any more than any other person who takes divers out on tours?
Please explain? I don't think it is "wining" to remember I was on a tour with
him if Chris, for some strange reason, he is in denial that he ever took out
tours for Carl. I only mentioned it to give Chris a little nudge, in case he
forgot. Let him stay in denial -- I only regard the entire matter as one of
mild amusement, at this point. I've gone on to greater u/w glory on many
subsequent trips.

Chris is dead wrong in denying he was on that tour or had "select memory" for
some reason. How do you know Chris is a "nice guy" or a "bad guy" or whatever
if you have never been on one of his tours and had some extended exposure to
him? Please explain!

I never, on that tour, asked him to define his technique of u/w photography to
me. I was doing my own thing, as was Chris doing his own thing, which he does
rather well, as we all know. But it seems to me that in denying he ever took
out tours as a "dive guide for hire" he's become altogather "too grand for
words." Maybe all of his accomplishments have gone to his head, as if often the
case.

Daniel Arrepas wrote:

> "Daniel Kessler" <dkessler@pop.cybernex.net> wrote in message
> news:42344585.B21E3DD1@pop.cybernex.net...
>
> > This Chris Newbert led dive tour was
> > long before he had his own dive touring company and he took out groups or
> > was a
> > "dive tour leader" for Sea & See. For some reason (perhaps vanity), Chris
> > Newbert wants to forget his salad days as a dive tour leader for hire and
> > has
> > "select memory" when the subject is brought up.
>
> You know Daniel, I seem to remember you whining about Chris on the very ng
> (or maybe uw-photo-L) maybe 10-12 years ago or so. Something about being him
> the first in the water and not taking care to teach you how to shoot
> underwater (my memory is slim on these points but I do believe it was you).
> I spoke to him about it at that time and after looking at his records he
> replied to me a few weeks later than no Daniel Kessler had ever been on a
> tour with him.
>
> I have never joined one of his tours, so I don't know if the're good or bad,
> but geez, after so long maybe you can get over it if you had a bad
> experience with him. He's not a bad guy and he has loyal and high paying
> clientele (no doubt you'll call them suck-ups) so somewhere along the line
> he got it right, and as far as him forgetting where he has worked: Chris
> introduced Carl to me many years ago and described him as his former
> employer. Doesn't seem to me he had any problem at all with being a See &
> Sea ex-tour leader.
>
> You sound jealous, ya know?

"Daniel Kessler" <dkessler@pop.cybernex.net> wrote in message
news:4235FB7A.C7893FAF@pop.cybernex.net...
>I guess you would want to be one of Chris's "groupies." And why, prey
>tell,
> are you so defensive about Chris. Do you have a crush on him, did he
> tickle
> your fancy? If he has a "loyal, high paying clientelle" are we to be
> intimindated by that? Just because George Bush won the last election --
> do I
> have to like him? Because he had a lot of rich friends who plunked down
> huge
> sums of money to fund his campaign? Having a rich clientelle apparentlly
> impresses you -- which says more about the kind of person you are than
> anything
> else you have said!
>
> I get it! According to your mentality, people only have worth when
> they're
> filthy rich! That may define you -- but it does not define me! I went on
> that
> Sea & Sea trip, as I had done on many, many others, to see a different
> part of
> the u/w world. I didn't go along as a Chris "groupie" or to secretly espy
> his
> techniques.
>
> But you admit you never went on one of his tours ...so what do you know
> and how
> do you know it? Did you brush against him at a convention for a few
> minutes to
> tell him how wonderful he was?
>
> I have been on a tour with him. Why should Chris Newbert be a "monstre
> sacre"
> on this board, any more than any other person who takes divers out on
> tours?
> Please explain? I don't think it is "wining" to remember I was on a tour
> with
> him if Chris, for some strange reason, he is in denial that he ever took
> out
> tours for Carl. I only mentioned it to give Chris a little nudge, in case
> he
> forgot. Let him stay in denial -- I only regard the entire matter as one
> of
> mild amusement, at this point. I've gone on to greater u/w glory on many
> subsequent trips.
>
> Chris is dead wrong in denying he was on that tour or had "select memory"
> for
> some reason. How do you know Chris is a "nice guy" or a "bad guy" or
> whatever
> if you have never been on one of his tours and had some extended exposure
> to
> him? Please explain!
>
> I never, on that tour, asked him to define his technique of u/w
> photography to
> me. I was doing my own thing, as was Chris doing his own thing, which he
> does
> rather well, as we all know. But it seems to me that in denying he ever
> took
> out tours as a "dive guide for hire" he's become altogather "too grand for
> words." Maybe all of his accomplishments have gone to his head, as if
> often the
> case.

Daniel, You are acting like a little girl, and I'm being a bit unfair to
little girls when I say that so I'll try to answer your questions without
responding to the rudeness your hurt feelings has generated.

I met Chris at A-Basin. We ski together. I have never been diving with him.
I've never been to a "convention"????? with him.

His particular photographic perspective isn't an immense interest to me much
because I like the sea and everything in it rendered as it is, rather than
minor distillations of form, but I believe Chris is the best at expressing
his own specific imperative.

His tours are exorbitant in price, but he has a strong clientele who return
time and time again so it seems they find some value and enjoyment in his
service. I know a number of them and have never heard anything like the
whining you have continued with for over a decade. It seems to me the only
groupie he has given birth to is you.

I didn't say Chris denied "being on that tour", I said he checked his
records and they indicate no one with your name ever joined him on a trip.

As far as Carl goes it wouldn't surprise me that most of his past associates
deny being part of his business, particularly given the manner in which he
closed shop and the number of people and boats that suffered due to his
business practices. But as I said before, when I was introduced to Carl,
Chris said he used to work for him. So I don't see any indication he was
hiding anything or trying to disassociate himself with Sea & See or Carl.

Quite frankly, if I had ever been part of Sea & See, I myself wouldn't be so
willing to let people know about it today. Carl hurt a lot of people without
cause. But I have never seen Chris deny his employment with that operation.

Unfortunately it was indeed you who in 1994 claimed Chris didn't spend
anytime working with you on technique and complained that instead of helping
photographers get ready, Chris was always the first one into the water. That
seemed like such a sin to you, that he was in the water before others. My
feeling has always been that if I want to be first in the water, I make it
so rather than caterwauling about the one who beat me to the punch.

I imagine his accomplishments may have indeed gone to his head. He'd have to
be an idiot not to recognize the exposure he has brought to the craft, the
esteem he has enabled other underwater photographers enjoy or aspire to, or
understand how he elevated the quality of photo printing in bookwork with
Rainbowed Sea. It seems strange to me that you would deny him the
satisfaction he has earned in that regard. As an underwater photographer
yourself, you have to understand that book elevated underwater photography
to a new professional plateau it had never been granted before.

As far as your "greater u/w glory", I think that just about says all we need
to know about your infatuation with Chris Newbert.

Get over him. He's a good guy, and you seem like such a sad case running
around for 12 years now whining about how he never gave you enough of his
time. You'e got no case here, because he doesn't deny ever having contracted
with Sea & Sea to lead photo tours.

His e-mail is all over the web. Seems to me after all these years you might
want to complain directly to him rather than cat-calling from the shadows of
Usenet. It might help your self-respect too.

I used to ski "A" basin myself when I lived in Colorado-- skiied into May, if I
recall correctly. One year I clocked in over 80 days of skiing. I even thought
that was wonderful until I discovered heli-skiing with Canadian Mountain
Holidays and skiied the Bugaboos, Bobbie Burns and other fantastic ski locations
they have up in British Columbia. Pretty pricey stuff too -- $7,000 and up for
a week of glory in early March. After that, Colorado skiing became a dim
memory.

I'm afraid you're the one who is making a mountain out of a mole hill. This is
the 2nd time I've even mentioned this matter in years -- it is hardly a
fixation, as you seem to imply. I've made countless posts on this board and
never mentioned Chris -- its just that his name pops into my head anytime I
recall that trip to the Hermits and Madang (which another poster brought up).

Again, unlike some others (of his groupies) on the boat charter, I did NOT come
along to learn his skills. Get real! I never asked him to show me ANYTHING!
Got that? And if you look up my old post of many years ago -- I never claimed
such. When his groupies were busy hovering around Chris and his gear after
dinner-- I was down below deck in my stateroom "zzzzzzzzzzz" I couldn't be
bothered, particulary manipulating all of the u/w paraphernalia he brings along
-- and that's fine for him, if it works for him!

That you suggest that I could have just geared up and jumped into the water
shows your ignorance on how things are done on a dive charter boat under the
control of the skipper and the dive guide/dive master. They might be moving the
boat at the last instance -- you have to wait for a signal before plunging into
the water, unless you want to become chopped liver with the boat's propeller!.
Obviously, you haven't a clue as to how things are done on dive charters -- I've
been on many of them in a number of exotic locations. In such instances, far
out to sea or on a remote reef-- you're in a controlled environment for safety's
sake.

Yes, Chris continued throughout the trip to be the one to give the signal that
he would go in first -- he had worked that out with the skipper. What could I
do -- finally had enough near the end of the trip and complained!!! I did this
because, as we all know, the first person in the water is the one most likely to
startle interesting sea creatures who will immediatley take off! Chris
certainly knew that -- and was determined that he alone would be that person.
He would be Mister "noblesss oblige"...and I was stuck being a peon in his realm
of imposed rules put in place with the skipper (and Chris). After a while, one
doesn't like being treated like Jean Val Jean and it is time to attack the
Bastille if you are a paying customer. Things like that do go on ...when you're
on a charter and have a famous u/w photographer on board but since it was a Sea
& Sea trip, I thought that Chris would cut some slack to a paying customer who
was NOT one of his groupies. He did not! As far as he was concerned -- it was
"his own" charter and he had brought along his friends and that was it!

In demanding my money's worth -- how am I behaving like "a little girl?" Your
analogy doesn't make sense. How do you behave when people start pushing you
around? Do you take it on the chin?

Also, I think you're being a little unfair to Carl Roessler -- he did some good
things and for many years ....ran a 1st rate company only to be brought to
penury by that monster of a wife (his second one) Jessica. They're now
divorced. She ran up debts, bought houses and made other lavish expenditures
without consulting him. The poor guy was pussywhipped. She was a co-signee of
checks in a joint account.

The only thing I'm miffed with Carl about was his failure to introduce me to
Leni Riefensthal ---"Hitler's honey" --according to that old windbag columnist
of that day --Walter Winchell --his real name was Walter Weinstein or something
like that but changed it. I'm speaking of the time that Carl and I were in the
Maldives back in 1982. Carl slipped away one evening to meet Leni who was
diving off a nearby resort island (atoll). I mean, the legendary Leni
Riefensthal...Yikes! The stories she could have told me about her movie
career! She made two of the most famous movies of all time, "The triumph of the
Will" and "Olympiad," which was after many films that she starred in. I also
want to thank Carl for introducing me to Stan Waterman -- a true gentleman.

Daniel Arrepas wrote:

> "Daniel Kessler" <dkessler@pop.cybernex.net> wrote in message
> news:4235FB7A.C7893FAF@pop.cybernex.net...
> >I guess you would want to be one of Chris's "groupies." And why, prey
> >tell,
> > are you so defensive about Chris. Do you have a crush on him, did he
> > tickle
> > your fancy? If he has a "loyal, high paying clientelle" are we to be
> > intimindated by that? Just because George Bush won the last election --
> > do I
> > have to like him? Because he had a lot of rich friends who plunked down
> > huge
> > sums of money to fund his campaign? Having a rich clientelle apparentlly
> > impresses you -- which says more about the kind of person you are than
> > anything
> > else you have said!
> >
> > I get it! According to your mentality, people only have worth when
> > they're
> > filthy rich! That may define you -- but it does not define me! I went on
> > that
> > Sea & Sea trip, as I had done on many, many others, to see a different
> > part of
> > the u/w world. I didn't go along as a Chris "groupie" or to secretly espy
> > his
> > techniques.
> >
> > But you admit you never went on one of his tours ...so what do you know
> > and how
> > do you know it? Did you brush against him at a convention for a few
> > minutes to
> > tell him how wonderful he was?
> >
> > I have been on a tour with him. Why should Chris Newbert be a "monstre
> > sacre"
> > on this board, any more than any other person who takes divers out on
> > tours?
> > Please explain? I don't think it is "wining" to remember I was on a tour
> > with
> > him if Chris, for some strange reason, he is in denial that he ever took
> > out
> > tours for Carl. I only mentioned it to give Chris a little nudge, in case
> > he
> > forgot. Let him stay in denial -- I only regard the entire matter as one
> > of
> > mild amusement, at this point. I've gone on to greater u/w glory on many
> > subsequent trips.
> >
> > Chris is dead wrong in denying he was on that tour or had "select memory"
> > for
> > some reason. How do you know Chris is a "nice guy" or a "bad guy" or
> > whatever
> > if you have never been on one of his tours and had some extended exposure
> > to
> > him? Please explain!
> >
> > I never, on that tour, asked him to define his technique of u/w
> > photography to
> > me. I was doing my own thing, as was Chris doing his own thing, which he
> > does
> > rather well, as we all know. But it seems to me that in denying he ever
> > took
> > out tours as a "dive guide for hire" he's become altogather "too grand for
> > words." Maybe all of his accomplishments have gone to his head, as if
> > often the
> > case.
>
> Daniel, You are acting like a little girl, and I'm being a bit unfair to
> little girls when I say that so I'll try to answer your questions without
> responding to the rudeness your hurt feelings has generated.
>
> I met Chris at A-Basin. We ski together. I have never been diving with him.
> I've never been to a "convention"????? with him.
>
> His particular photographic perspective isn't an immense interest to me much
> because I like the sea and everything in it rendered as it is, rather than
> minor distillations of form, but I believe Chris is the best at expressing
> his own specific imperative.
>
> His tours are exorbitant in price, but he has a strong clientele who return
> time and time again so it seems they find some value and enjoyment in his
> service. I know a number of them and have never heard anything like the
> whining you have continued with for over a decade. It seems to me the only
> groupie he has given birth to is you.
>
> I didn't say Chris denied "being on that tour", I said he checked his
> records and they indicate no one with your name ever joined him on a trip.
>
> As far as Carl goes it wouldn't surprise me that most of his past associates
> deny being part of his business, particularly given the manner in which he
> closed shop and the number of people and boats that suffered due to his
> business practices. But as I said before, when I was introduced to Carl,
> Chris said he used to work for him. So I don't see any indication he was
> hiding anything or trying to disassociate himself with Sea & See or Carl.
>
> Quite frankly, if I had ever been part of Sea & See, I myself wouldn't be so
> willing to let people know about it today. Carl hurt a lot of people without
> cause. But I have never seen Chris deny his employment with that operation.
>
> Unfortunately it was indeed you who in 1994 claimed Chris didn't spend
> anytime working with you on technique and complained that instead of helping
> photographers get ready, Chris was always the first one into the water. That
> seemed like such a sin to you, that he was in the water before others. My
> feeling has always been that if I want to be first in the water, I make it
> so rather than caterwauling about the one who beat me to the punch.
>
> I imagine his accomplishments may have indeed gone to his head. He'd have to
> be an idiot not to recognize the exposure he has brought to the craft, the
> esteem he has enabled other underwater photographers enjoy or aspire to, or
> understand how he elevated the quality of photo printing in bookwork with
> Rainbowed Sea. It seems strange to me that you would deny him the
> satisfaction he has earned in that regard. As an underwater photographer
> yourself, you have to understand that book elevated underwater photography
> to a new professional plateau it had never been granted before.
>
> As far as your "greater u/w glory", I think that just about says all we need
> to know about your infatuation with Chris Newbert.
>
> Get over him. He's a good guy, and you seem like such a sad case running
> around for 12 years now whining about how he never gave you enough of his
> time. You'e got no case here, because he doesn't deny ever having contracted
> with Sea & Sea to lead photo tours.
>
> His e-mail is all over the web. Seems to me after all these years you might
> want to complain directly to him rather than cat-calling from the shadows of
> Usenet. It might help your self-respect too.

"Daniel Kessler" <dkessler@pop.cybernex.net> wrote in message
news:42365558.2E63D823@pop.cybernex.net...
>I used to ski "A" basin myself when I lived in Colorado-- skiied into May,
>if I
> recall correctly.

June every year, and July most years...though you wouldn't want to ski
you're favorite boards :^)

> One year I clocked in over 80 days of skiing. I even thought
> that was wonderful until I discovered heli-skiing with Canadian Mountain
> Holidays and skiied the Bugaboos, Bobbie Burns and other fantastic ski
> locations
> they have up in British Columbia. Pretty pricey stuff too -- $7,000 and
> up for
> a week of glory in early March. After that, Colorado skiing became a dim
> memory.

I like skiing a lot of places. I went to college at Udub so I was skiing BC
30 years ago whenever the opportunity arose. But Colorado is my backyard now
so if I want to ski 80 days a year, very few of them will be in Canada. We
make a single heli-ski trip per year up there, but it's become more popular
over the years and the solitary experience it used to provide has been
diminished somewhat. It used to be like drawing on a virgin canvas, but
these days you have to have the luck of the weather to see it that way.

Still, it's a nice experience, but skiing powder eliminates the more
tactical aspects of skiing and in many ways makes one a less accomplished
skier. I enjoy Utah and Colorado immensely, but feel the best skiing is
found in the Alps because of the aggressive terrain and incredible fall.
They don't always get our quality of snow, and neither does BC, but those
mountains will tax your abilities in ways that North America will not. I
think this is the main reason European skiers, the real skiers, are
technically so superior to NA skiers. They just have to be.

> Again, unlike some others (of his groupies) on the boat charter, I did NOT
> come
> along to learn his skills. Get real! I never asked him to show me
> ANYTHING!

I can only go by what you yourself posted over the years.

> When his groupies were busy hovering around Chris and his gear after
> dinner-- I was down below deck in my stateroom "zzzzzzzzzzz" I couldn't be
> bothered, particulary manipulating all of the u/w paraphernalia he brings
> along
> -- and that's fine for him, if it works for him!

If it's fine for him, why take the time to mention it. You give yourself
away at every single utterance on this subject. And why ridicule people who
like the guy? He's not the first person proficient at a craft that others
like to be around. Isn't this why college grads and students try to get
internships with the best at whatever area of study they have chosen? Isn't
it true that if you spend time around people particularly successful or
proficient at a given task, you yourself may learn a thing or two?

Of the people on this trip you may already have been proficient at uw-photo.
But why ridicule those who may not have been and were looking for any sort
of laser-like learning improvement. I enjoy racing cars and you'd better
believe I jump at the chance to get a pit or garage pass to a major
successful team, and try to pickup on any little advantage I otherwise would
never learn. Am I a "groupie" because of that? Your dislike of Chris is so
immense that you seemingly attack anyone who likes him or patronizes his
business.

> That you suggest that I could have just geared up and jumped into the
> water
> shows your ignorance on how things are done on a dive charter boat under
> the
> control of the skipper and the dive guide/dive master.

Bullshit. I've traveled as much or more than you, for as many or more years,
and to locales equally or more diverse. Please don't employ the stupid
Usenet obfuscation tricks. It's below both of our considerable experience
with the subject at hand.

> Yes, Chris continued throughout the trip to be the one to give the signal
> that
> he would go in first -- he had worked that out with the skipper. What
> could I
> do -- finally had enough near the end of the trip and complained!!! I did
> this
> because, as we all know, the first person in the water is the one most
> likely to
> startle interesting sea creatures who will immediatley take off!

I never have bought into that, and have never thought that surprising a
startled fleeing subject would very often result in a good snapshot, let
alone a managed image. I tend to be the last into the water. I tend to let
everyone else move away, and then I settle and move along at my pace, rather
than a pace that keeps me ahead of "the pack". More often than not the
subjects come back, or reappear. I have never thought first in was as
advantageous as was letting the other 13 or 14 divers go first, then seeing
where most head, and then, meandering off to settle down and wait by myself.

The difference between the first in and the second, third and fourth in, is
but a matter of seconds. Maybe mine is not the best strategy, but I am more
comfortable with that than the very very occasional advantage "first in"
generates. I have always found that "for me", aggression underwater is isn't
the best tactic for acquiring the preferable photo op.

I suspect he was looking to cop a couple shots before the following herd
stirred up the particulate and made the water bubble like champagne, than he
was trying to be the one seeing the big or interesting animal first.

> Chris
> certainly knew that -- and was determined that he alone would be that
> person.
> He would be Mister "noblesss oblige"...and I was stuck being a peon in his
> realm
> of imposed rules put in place with the skipper (and Chris).

I personally wouldn't have had a problem with it, but if it mattered to you,
you should have dealt with it earlier in the trip, rather than seeming so
bitter more so many years later. Really, your thing with Chris seems to be
much more about his success, rather than this week shared on a boat.

> In demanding my money's worth -- how am I behaving like "a little girl?"

This is years and years later. How is it that in 2005 you are demanding your
money's worth from a trip that took place before most of the people on this
ng had every heard of a liveaboard dive boat? As soon as it bothered you,
you should have spoken to him in private, just like you do with any other
issue aboard a liveaboard. Instead, all these years later, you're still
pouting. (sorry, you asked)

> How do you behave when people start pushing you
> around? Do you take it on the chin?

Well, first of all I don't get pushed around. It's not that people don't
try, it's just that I am pretty square on what I will allow and what I will
not. So in the case of the tour leader wanting to be first in the water...I
don't care. Let 'em go, it doesn't matter to me and I'm not getting pushed
around just because that person may believe they are forcing an advantage
for themselves. What they think isn't my business.

Because the human chemistry aboard a dive boat is sometimes a sensitive
thing, I generally react only when something is really an imposition on my
ability to enjoy the trip. But when that is evident to me I make no delay in
speaking to whoever it is at issue, and I do it in private. Liveaboards
aren't anything if they aren't compromises, which is why many "tour
providers", at least those with a strong enough clientele, screen guests and
delete from future trips or mailings those who were less than compatible.

When you have been shooting Great Whites from a cage, how many times did you
let the other people in the cage with you ruin you ops by getting their
strobe arms in your perspective. I suspect, not many times. I've got to
think you were for some reason intimidated by Chris and for that reason did
not cure this irritancy earlier in the trip. That was probably all that was
needed to either get Chris to stop being first in, or for you to stop caring
that he was.

> Also, I think you're being a little unfair to Carl Roessler

I am not being unfair to Carl in any degree.

> -- he did some good things and for many years

Yes he did, but that is no defense for the loses sustained by individual
divers as well as liveaboard dive boat owners and operators because of his
choice of actions. (and besides.......he *placed* that Rhinopias in the
red gorgonia :^)

>....ran a 1st rate company

No he didn't. But he is, in my mind, singularly responsible for the wealth
of liveaboard options we enjoy today, and he was singularly responsible for
making 3rd world countries recognize the advantages of opening their doors,
societies and laws to the diving community.

Those of us who enjoy liveaboard diving in remote locales owe him a high
debt of gratitude for his foresight and perseverance. He was indeed a
break-trail-pioneer

> only to be brought to
> penury by that monster of a wife (his second one) Jessica. They're no
> divorced. She ran up debts, bought houses and made other lavish
> expenditures
> without consulting him. The poor guy was pussywhipped. She was a
> co-signee of
> checks in a joint account.

I don't know that to be true, but I also don't care. It's a partisan excuse
for his actions, not a reason they should be accepted or a reason he should
be exonerated. I like Baby's Little Pumpkin too, but it's not an excuse for
whatever mistakes I have made, or those I have allowed in my name, in life.

I don't want to tear him up on a public forum so I won't go further than
this: People lost money because of choices he made. He could have stopped
taking money from people when it became evident he wasn't going to be able
to provide to them the trips they thought they were buying. Your notion that
he is innocent to some degree because she wasn't judicious in spending,
isn't very considered.

So even if Chris, or anyone else for that matter, were trying to
disassociate themselves from Sea & See, it is likely he was being nothing
more than a prudent businessperson. Hell, even Carl doesn't want anything to
do with that company!!!!

Compared to the ruination the manner of Sea & See's closure created (which
you seem to be defending), jumping into the water before you do seems a
minor offense, and not one to publicly denigrate a person over.

Fantastic reply. great to hear that Madang is worth the trip.

Am staying at the Jais Aben facility. I understand that its really improved
recently - apparently went through a rough trot with owners. New owners and
new lease on life.

Should look at http://www.michaelmcfadyenscuba.info...s/overseas.htm

This guy has been around.

Excellent record if you're going to dive the east coast of Oz.



"Daniel Kessler" <dkessler@pop.cybernex.net> wrote in message
news:42344585.B21E3DD1@pop.cybernex.net...
> "the quarry" is a fabulous dive...not far from Madang, heading up the New
Guinea
> coast towards Hansa Bay. No, it is not an actual "quarry" but a spot
further up
> the coast (about 5/10 miles)-- I understand that the name comes from a
"quarry"
> that is inland, but nearby off the coast road. There's a wreck there at
this
> dive site (a small boat at 90 feet). There's quite a bit of current there
since
> the "quarry" is located on a point along the coast that jutts out into the
> ocean. There were some astonding things there, a kind of coral that looked
like
> a "gold carpet." In 25 years of diving in the Pacific -- I've never
encountered
> anything like that since. It was a true "carpet of glory." Also, at the
edge
> of the "carpet of glory" there was a huge white fan that was to "die for."
It
> was an u/w photographer's dream come-true.
>
> There used to be a dive operation (Jais Aben) in Madang but haven't heard
much
> of it for some time. Are they still in business? I once stayed with them
and
> dived the area on another trip. That they had a dive-master there in
residence
> was an on-and-off thing. You really had to contact them in advance and
tell
> them you were coming. Madang is one of the few places along the coast of
this
> big island where large muddy rivers are not befouling the vis. Of course,
> there's the Sepik, a Mississippi-sized muddy river that empties into the
ocean
> that stains the water along the coast for miles. The mouth of the Sepik
is some
> distance from Madang -- but still!
>
> Much nearer to Madang, is another sizeable muddy river whose name begins
with
> the letter "R" (can't think of what it is called right now) that empties
in to
> the ocean, but the places along the coast that are suitable with excellent
u/w
> vis are few and far between. I was on a dive charter with Chris Newbert
where
> we dived along the coast of Papua New Guinea around Madang, including that
> volcanic island off New Guinea (whose name escapes me--was it Kau-Kau or
> something like that?) and we motered all the way out to the Hermit
Islands.
> There were some beautiful spots up in the lonely Hermits (that's getting
quite a
> ways out from the coast of New Guinea). This Chris Newbert led dive tour
was
> long before he had his own dive touring company and he took out groups or
was a
> "dive tour leader" for Sea & See. For some reason (perhaps vanity), Chris
> Newbert wants to forget his salad days as a dive tour leader for hire and
has
> "select memory" when the subject is brought up.
>
> Michael Short wrote:
>
> > Has anyone been to Madang recently? Am off there in April and am
interested
> > in finding out as much as possible and where the best diving is.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Mike
>

"Michael Short" <mdshort@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:YUUZd.406$TV4.4914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...

> Ladies

Go fuck yourself Michael.....

.......how's that for personal?

You need to get out more.


"Daniel Arrepas" <arrepas.daniel@butler-rosebury.com> wrote in message
news:bkYZd.3$ix1.989@news.uswest.net...
>
> "Michael Short" <mdshort@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> news:YUUZd.406$TV4.4914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>
> > Ladies
>
> Go fuck yourself Michael.....
>
> ......how's that for personal?
>
>

from the web site it is referenced as 1996. That's almost ten years now. Are
you sure Jais Aben is still open and receiving divers?

Michael Short wrote:

> Fantastic reply. great to hear that Madang is worth the trip.
>
> Am staying at the Jais Aben facility. I understand that its really improved
> recently - apparently went through a rough trot with owners. New owners and
> new lease on life.
>
> Should look at http://www.michaelmcfadyenscuba.info...s/overseas.htm
>
> This guy has been around.
>
> Excellent record if you're going to dive the east coast of Oz.
>
> "Daniel Kessler" <dkessler@pop.cybernex.net> wrote in message
> news:42344585.B21E3DD1@pop.cybernex.net...
> > "the quarry" is a fabulous dive...not far from Madang, heading up the New
> Guinea
> > coast towards Hansa Bay. No, it is not an actual "quarry" but a spot
> further up
> > the coast (about 5/10 miles)-- I understand that the name comes from a
> "quarry"
> > that is inland, but nearby off the coast road. There's a wreck there at
> this
> > dive site (a small boat at 90 feet). There's quite a bit of current there
> since
> > the "quarry" is located on a point along the coast that jutts out into the
> > ocean. There were some astonding things there, a kind of coral that looked
> like
> > a "gold carpet." In 25 years of diving in the Pacific -- I've never
> encountered
> > anything like that since. It was a true "carpet of glory." Also, at the
> edge
> > of the "carpet of glory" there was a huge white fan that was to "die for."
> It
> > was an u/w photographer's dream come-true.
> >
> > There used to be a dive operation (Jais Aben) in Madang but haven't heard
> much
> > of it for some time. Are they still in business? I once stayed with them
> and
> > dived the area on another trip. That they had a dive-master there in
> residence
> > was an on-and-off thing. You really had to contact them in advance and
> tell
> > them you were coming. Madang is one of the few places along the coast of
> this
> > big island where large muddy rivers are not befouling the vis. Of course,
> > there's the Sepik, a Mississippi-sized muddy river that empties into the
> ocean
> > that stains the water along the coast for miles. The mouth of the Sepik
> is some
> > distance from Madang -- but still!
> >
> > Much nearer to Madang, is another sizeable muddy river whose name begins
> with
> > the letter "R" (can't think of what it is called right now) that empties
> in to
> > the ocean, but the places along the coast that are suitable with excellent
> u/w
> > vis are few and far between. I was on a dive charter with Chris Newbert
> where
> > we dived along the coast of Papua New Guinea around Madang, including that
> > volcanic island off New Guinea (whose name escapes me--was it Kau-Kau or
> > something like that?) and we motered all the way out to the Hermit
> Islands.
> > There were some beautiful spots up in the lonely Hermits (that's getting
> quite a
> > ways out from the coast of New Guinea). This Chris Newbert led dive tour
> was
> > long before he had his own dive touring company and he took out groups or
> was a
> > "dive tour leader" for Sea & See. For some reason (perhaps vanity), Chris
> > Newbert wants to forget his salad days as a dive tour leader for hire and
> has
> > "select memory" when the subject is brought up.
> >
> > Michael Short wrote:
> >
> > > Has anyone been to Madang recently? Am off there in April and am
> interested
> > > in finding out as much as possible and where the best diving is.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Mike
> >