An example of why low PADI standards can be bad

From the diveaccidents mail list:


Finally a more detailed report(s) from an accident last year...

First from August 9th:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2304901.html

Second from August 12th:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2309489.html

-----
Deaths of divers 'may have been avoided'
By Simon de Bruxelles

THE world's leading diving course was criticised yesterday for allowing
novices to progress too quickly, during inquests into the deaths of
three men off the coast of Cornwall.

The US-based Professional Association of Diving Instructors (Padi)
course, which is undertaken by a million people a year, was singled out
for allowing beginners to gain an advanced level after just eight
dives, four of them in a pool.

A diving expert and a police diver said that people were risking death
by going out with insufficient training and experience. Philip Bryson,
head of the Diving Diseases Research Centre in Plymouth, told one
hearing: "I do not believe that someone with eight dives should be
classified as an advanced diver. It is madness."

Peter Tapper, a diver with Devon and Cornwall police, said: "The whole
process moves along far too quickly."

Nigel Meadows, the Plymouth Coroner, was told that the common factors
in the deaths last June were existing medical conditions, alcohol and a
lack of experience.

Mark Jackson, 41, from Southwell, Nottinghamshire, dropped his weights
when his diving partner ran short of oxygen. He died from an embolism
when air trapped in his lungs formed bubbles in his blood.

In a separate incident, Albert Tythecott, 65, from Barnstaple, North
Devon, suffered a cerebral gas embolism due to rapid decompression.

Christopher Sidgwick, 40, of Chelmsford, Essex, drowned after he
mistakenly used a reserve tank of air that ran out. A verdict of
accidental death was recorded at all three inquests.

Padi defended its course, saying: "Accidents do occur."

-------------------------
Diving 'experts' not ready for the deeps
By Will Pavia

Too many novices who gained qualifications on holiday are not prepared
for more dangerous British waters
IN GLOOMY waters off the coast of Cornwall, Kerry Sale lost her grip on
the diving line.

Before that day in June last year, she had completed four dives in the
calm waters of a disused Midlands quarry.

Then, armed with an Open Water Diver certificate from the Professional
Association of Dive Instructors (Padi), she travelled to the South
Coast with a diving instructor and a friend, Mark Jackson, for a
weekend exploring sunken wrecks.

"If I'm doing something I tend to follow the rules," she told The
Times. "A Padi instructor suggested that we dive the wrecks. It never
occurred to me to say, 'Will it be all right?' " But rolling off the
back of the boat on her second dive that day, she felt unprepared for
the dark waters and currents that swept over the James Egan Layne, a
merchant ship that had been sunk by a U-boat's torpedo in 1945.

Ms Sale ran short of oxygen. "As I was ascending, I got separated from
Mark," she said. "I just lost control."

Mr Jackson, 41, the head of a Nottinghamshire building company,
jettisoned his weights and made a rapid break for the surface to call
for help. Having done so, he fell unconscious. He had ascended too
fast. Air trapped in his lungs had formed bubbles in his blood, and he
died of an embolism.

This week the story was retold in a coroner's court in Plymouth,
together with the tales of the deaths of two other relatively
inexperienced divers.

Ms Sale, 38, was told that she should not have been in the water and
was lucky to be alive.

Mr Jackson was said to have been overweight, and suffering from high
blood pressure, asthma and depression, which he had failed to declare
on his Padi medical form. He had been drinking the night before.

At a second inquest a novice diver, 64, was said to have died after
surfacing too fast, and at a third, a builder, 40, who had been diving
for a year, was said to have mixed up his air supply tanks. Both had
also been drinking the night before. The coroner, Nigel Meadows, said
he hoped that the hearings would serve "as a warning to all the schools
and novice divers".

Two expert witnesses at the hearing were less cautious in criticising
the set-up of what is one of Britain's fastest growing sports. PC Peter
Tapper, a diver for Devon and Cornwall Police, said that too many
novices took short courses on holiday, in calm clear waters, and
returned thinking themselves fully qualified for the colder, rougher,
darker waters of Britain. Philip Bryson, the head of the Diving
Diseases Research Centre in Plymouth, said that British training bodies
had streamlined their courses to compete with Padi, the world's largest
diving training organisation. "We have people presently diving who feel
they are advanced but have no experience whatsoever. The diving
community needs to be totally re-educated."

Ms Sale has not dived since that day in June.

Mr Jackson's widow, Julie Jackson, a mother of four, told The Times:
"He had dived in Kos, and in Florida and Egypt. I thought he was pretty

experienced until I listened to the expert witness, who doesn't call
anyone an expert until they have done 200 dives. I think the training
organisations need to tighten up."

Next month Rick Raeburn, the chairman of the British Diving Safety
Group, will consider the coroner's findings at the organisation's
meeting. "We will look at anything we can do to improve safety," he
said.

"Mr Jackson was said to have been overweight, and suffering from high
blood pressure, asthma and depression, which he had failed to declare
on his Padi medical form. "

PADI didn't kill that dude.

"At a second inquest a novice diver, 64, was said to have died after
surfacing too fast,"

I'm not PADI certified, but I know for a fact they teach slow ascents,
and make you practice them in the pool and in the water. PADI didn't
kill that one, either.

"and at a third, a builder, 40, who had been diving for a year, was
said to have mixed up his air supply tanks."

Sucking gas off the wrong bottle can kill you in the pool. PADI didn't
do him in, either.

I'm gonna have to go with stupidity and hubris as the culprits with
these deaders. PADI, certifying almos %85 of the OW divers in the
world, is going to come up a lot when there's an accident. 85% of the
time, I'm guessing.

"Jerome's Sock Puppet" <jerome.oneil@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155522703.150765.249560@m79g2000cwm.googlegr oups.com...

> I'm gonna have to go with stupidity and hubris as the culprits with
> these deaders. PADI, certifying almos %85 of the OW divers in the
> world, is going to come up a lot when there's an accident. 85% of the
> time, I'm guessing.

Yeah, but simple logic doesnt elicit the same emotional, visceral,
satisfaction as painting an entire agency as incompetent.

"Jerome's Sock Puppet" <jerome.oneil@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155523528.404575.143610@b28g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...

> Yep. Instead, I think we should mock the fat asthmatic deader.

> He was so fat, he's dead! HAHAHAH!!!!

All agencies require a minimum level of physical fitness, and unless things
have changed, a doctors release.

SCUBA is not a particularly strenuous sport, or doesnt have to be, but
still...

If ya wheeze climbing 20 steps, probably out to stick to poker or casino
life.

For example, there isnt enough money in the world to get me into a ring with
Tito Ortiz.

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:22:08 -0700, Alan Street
<agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com> wrote:
> Mark Jackson, 41, from Southwell, Nottinghamshire, dropped his weights
> when his diving partner ran short of oxygen. He died from an embolism
> when air trapped in his lungs formed bubbles in his blood.

So, PADI teaches that one should drop their weights upon your diving
partner running out of gas? Damn, I was sure that you were supposed
to just donate a reg to them... Foolish me...

> Christopher Sidgwick, 40, of Chelmsford, Essex, drowned after he
> mistakenly used a reserve tank of air that ran out.

Perhaps that was his *second* mistake... Running out of the first tank
and needing the 2nd tank was probably the first... Not checking the
pressures on the tanks before the dive probably had something to do
with it also...

> Padi defended its course, saying: "Accidents do occur."

TRANSLATION: "Shit happens"...

Jerome's Sock Puppet wrote:
> Scott wrote:
> > "Jerome's Sock Puppet" <jerome.oneil@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1155522703.150765.249560@m79g2000cwm.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> > > I'm gonna have to go with stupidity and hubris as the culprits with
> > > these deaders. PADI, certifying almos %85 of the OW divers in the
> > > world, is going to come up a lot when there's an accident. 85% of the
> > > time, I'm guessing.
> >
> > Yeah, but simple logic doesnt elicit the same emotional, visceral,
> > satisfaction as painting an entire agency as incompetent.
>
> Yep. Instead, I think we should mock the fat asthmatic deader.
>
> He was so fat, he's dead! HAHAHAH!!!!

A fat, asthmatic, diabetic guy lied on his medical form for one of my
tech classes. Another student caught him shooting up and squealed; he
refused to be the guy's buddy. I sent the fat-asthmatic-diabetic guy
packing. Should I have kept him in the course? I don't teach PADI.

* , removing tongue from cheek

Star wrote:
> A fat, asthmatic, diabetic guy lied on his medical form for one of my
> tech classes. Another student caught him shooting up and squealed; he
> refused to be the guy's buddy. I sent the fat-asthmatic-diabetic guy
> packing. Should I have kept him in the course? I don't teach PADI.
>
> * , removing tongue from cheek

I'm not sure if you're being facetious, or I'm missing your point.

Are you suggesting that PADI should have caught the guy seruptitiously
shooting up?

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:22:08 -0700, Alan Street
<agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com> wrote:

>
>From the diveaccidents mail list:
>
>
>Finally a more detailed report(s) from an accident last year...
>
>First from August 9th:
>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2304901.html
>
>Second from August 12th:
>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2309489.html
>
>-----
>Deaths of divers 'may have been avoided'
>By Simon de Bruxelles
>
>THE world's leading diving course was criticised yesterday for allowing
>novices to progress too quickly, during inquests into the deaths of
>three men off the coast of Cornwall.
>
>The US-based Professional Association of Diving Instructors (Padi)
>course, which is undertaken by a million people a year, was singled out
>for allowing beginners to gain an advanced level after just eight
>dives, four of them in a pool.
>
>A diving expert and a police diver said that people were risking death
>by going out with insufficient training and experience. Philip Bryson,
>head of the Diving Diseases Research Centre in Plymouth, told one
>hearing: "I do not believe that someone with eight dives should be
>classified as an advanced diver. It is madness."
>
>Peter Tapper, a diver with Devon and Cornwall police, said: "The whole
>process moves along far too quickly."
>
>Nigel Meadows, the Plymouth Coroner, was told that the common factors
>in the deaths last June were existing medical conditions, alcohol and a
>lack of experience.
>
>Mark Jackson, 41, from Southwell, Nottinghamshire, dropped his weights
>when his diving partner ran short of oxygen. He died from an embolism
>when air trapped in his lungs formed bubbles in his blood.
>
>In a separate incident, Albert Tythecott, 65, from Barnstaple, North
>Devon, suffered a cerebral gas embolism due to rapid decompression.
>
>Christopher Sidgwick, 40, of Chelmsford, Essex, drowned after he
>mistakenly used a reserve tank of air that ran out. A verdict of
>accidental death was recorded at all three inquests.
>
>Padi defended its course, saying: "Accidents do occur."
>
>-------------------------
>Diving 'experts' not ready for the deeps
>By Will Pavia
>
>Too many novices who gained qualifications on holiday are not prepared
>for more dangerous British waters
>IN GLOOMY waters off the coast of Cornwall, Kerry Sale lost her grip on
>the diving line.
>
>Before that day in June last year, she had completed four dives in the
>calm waters of a disused Midlands quarry.
>
>Then, armed with an Open Water Diver certificate from the Professional
>Association of Dive Instructors (Padi), she travelled to the South
>Coast with a diving instructor and a friend, Mark Jackson, for a
>weekend exploring sunken wrecks.
>
>"If I'm doing something I tend to follow the rules," she told The
>Times. "A Padi instructor suggested that we dive the wrecks. It never
>occurred to me to say, 'Will it be all right?' " But rolling off the
>back of the boat on her second dive that day, she felt unprepared for
>the dark waters and currents that swept over the James Egan Layne, a
>merchant ship that had been sunk by a U-boat's torpedo in 1945.
>
>Ms Sale ran short of oxygen. "As I was ascending, I got separated from
>Mark," she said. "I just lost control."
>
>Mr Jackson, 41, the head of a Nottinghamshire building company,
>jettisoned his weights and made a rapid break for the surface to call
>for help. Having done so, he fell unconscious. He had ascended too
>fast. Air trapped in his lungs had formed bubbles in his blood, and he
>died of an embolism.
>
>This week the story was retold in a coroner's court in Plymouth,
>together with the tales of the deaths of two other relatively
>inexperienced divers.
>
>Ms Sale, 38, was told that she should not have been in the water and
>was lucky to be alive.
>
>Mr Jackson was said to have been overweight, and suffering from high
>blood pressure, asthma and depression, which he had failed to declare
>on his Padi medical form. He had been drinking the night before.
>
>At a second inquest a novice diver, 64, was said to have died after
>surfacing too fast, and at a third, a builder, 40, who had been diving
>for a year, was said to have mixed up his air supply tanks. Both had
>also been drinking the night before. The coroner, Nigel Meadows, said
>he hoped that the hearings would serve "as a warning to all the schools
>and novice divers".
>
>Two expert witnesses at the hearing were less cautious in criticising
>the set-up of what is one of Britain's fastest growing sports. PC Peter
>Tapper, a diver for Devon and Cornwall Police, said that too many
>novices took short courses on holiday, in calm clear waters, and
>returned thinking themselves fully qualified for the colder, rougher,
>darker waters of Britain. Philip Bryson, the head of the Diving
>Diseases Research Centre in Plymouth, said that British training bodies
>had streamlined their courses to compete with Padi, the world's largest
>diving training organisation. "We have people presently diving who feel
>they are advanced but have no experience whatsoever. The diving
>community needs to be totally re-educated."
>
>Ms Sale has not dived since that day in June.
>
>Mr Jackson's widow, Julie Jackson, a mother of four, told The Times:
>"He had dived in Kos, and in Florida and Egypt. I thought he was pretty
>
>experienced until I listened to the expert witness, who doesn't call
>anyone an expert until they have done 200 dives. I think the training
>organisations need to tighten up."
>
>Next month Rick Raeburn, the chairman of the British Diving Safety
>Group, will consider the coroner's findings at the organisation's
>meeting. "We will look at anything we can do to improve safety," he
>said.

Ah! The BSAC attack! They are losing membership. I've crossed several
of them here in the states. They come to Crystal River in droves to
scratch the Manatees and some to certify their kids to PADI and cross
with AOW.

By the way, I like BSACers. They're are usually good divers. I've met
some huffers though. SPG reading zero in the Bell at the Blue Grotto
ain't good. "I can make it the top on a breath" one said. "No you
can't ya dummy. Here's my seven footer. I've got 1500 left".

I had fun with one guy and a group of six male manatees vieing for a
cow. He became number seven. You should have seen the water boil.
What a hoot.

SAFE... Slowly Ascend From Every DIVE and never hold your breath.
That's an OW precept.

Nothing like Scapa Flow for a nice recreational dive. HA Ha hA ha.

"Jerome's Sock Puppet" <jerome.oneil@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155522703.150765.249560@m79g2000cwm.googlegr oups.com...
> "Mr Jackson was said to have been overweight, and suffering from high
> blood pressure, asthma and depression, which he had failed to declare
> on his Padi medical form. "
>
> PADI didn't kill that dude.
>
> "At a second inquest a novice diver, 64, was said to have died after
> surfacing too fast,"
>
> I'm not PADI certified, but I know for a fact they teach slow ascents,
> and make you practice them in the pool and in the water. PADI didn't
> kill that one, either.
>
> "and at a third, a builder, 40, who had been diving for a year, was
> said to have mixed up his air supply tanks."
>
> Sucking gas off the wrong bottle can kill you in the pool. PADI didn't
> do him in, either.
>
> I'm gonna have to go with stupidity and hubris as the culprits with
> these deaders. PADI, certifying almos %85 of the OW divers in the
> world, is going to come up a lot when there's an accident. 85% of the
> time, I'm guessing.

My, what a basic clarity you have.




--

Popeye
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -
deliberate, contrived, and dishonest - but the myth -
persistent, persuasive, and realistic. - JFK
www.finalprotectivefire.com

>

Popeye wrote:

> My, what a basic clarity you have.

I credit my perfect safety record to that. I haven't been fataly
injured or killed on a dive yet.

Team 3. It's the only way.