carbon monoxide

<dhjournalist@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1172192053.889869.266200@l53g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>I have heard that you can loose oxygen while you are diving if you do
> not open the valve all the way or there is not the right mixture of
> carbon monoxide. How much carbon monoxide can be in your tank for you
> to still be all right, at any depth?

The gas in a scuba tank is not oxygen but usually air or some mixture. The valve
should be fully open for diving. There should be no CO in the tank.

Adam

>I have heard that you can loose oxygen while you are diving if you do
> not open the valve all the way or there is not the right mixture of
> carbon monoxide.

You lose it if you do open the valve all the way too. Each time you exhale,
you loose some . . . unless you're using a closed circuit rebreather.

> How much carbon monoxide can be in your tank for you to still be all
> right, at any depth?

Very little.

"El Stroko Guapo" <omgray@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cYsDh.5451$tD2.5429@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> JRE wrote:
>> dhjournalist@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>>
>>> I have heard that you can loose oxygen while you are diving if you do
>>> not open the valve all the way or there is not the right mixture of
>>> carbon monoxide. How much carbon monoxide can be in your tank for you
>>> to still be all right, at any depth?
>>>
>>
>> Partially opening the valve is, um, not the right procedure. As for CO,
>> according to http://www.scuba-doc.com/carbonmon.html :
>>
>> "The maximal allowable level is 20 ppm (0.002%)."
>>
>> John Eells
>>
> In late August, 1946, J. Cousteau and his merry band went cave diving in
> the Fountain of Vaucluse in Avignon. (Ottonelli first dove the cave in
> 1878, so the route was known.) Jean Pinard made the first descent solo,
> putting a weighted line down to 90 feet. Cousteau and Dumas, connected
> with a buddy line, went down next.
>
> The details of what happened next vary somewhat between reports. Somewhere
> around 150 feet the depth gauge, carried by Dumas, imploded. At about the
> same time, both divers became light headed and disoriented. Dumas lost his
> mouthpiece but managed to recover it. Cousteau, confused and frightened
> witless, frantically tried to scramble up the down line, impeded by the
> buddy line attached to the negatively buoyant, semi-conscious Dumas.
> Meanwhile, the surface tender, thinking the jerking line was a signal for
> more rope, payed out line instead of pulling up. Finally, the tender
> sensed that not all was well and began to retrieve the line. Disaster was
> averted and two more divers, Tailliez and Morandiere, did the same dive
> with similar results.
>
> It was later determined that exhaust fumes had been drawn into the
> compressor and the high partial pressure of the carbon monoxide was
> poisoning the divers.
>
> abstracted from my book which really is going to print someday.
>
> esg
>
Given your information, which is quite interesting, would you recommend a
tester for anyone who dives? They are not cheap, but given some of the
stories I've heard...

On Feb 25, 10:33 am, "Sheldon" <shel...@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:
> "El Stroko Guapo" <omg...@earthlink.net> wrote in messagenews:cYsDh.5451$tD2.5429@newsread1.news.pas .earthlink.net...
>
>
>
> > JRE wrote:
> >> dhjournal...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
> >>> I have heard that you can loose oxygen while you are diving if you do
> >>> not open the valve all the way or there is not the right mixture of
> >>> carbon monoxide. How much carbon monoxide can be in your tank for you
> >>> to still be all right, at any depth?
>
> >> Partially opening the valve is, um, not the right procedure. As for CO,
> >> according tohttp://www.scuba-doc.com/carbonmon.html:
>
> >> "The maximal allowable level is 20 ppm (0.002%)."
>
> >> John Eells
>
> > In late August, 1946, J. Cousteau and his merry band went cave diving in
> > the Fountain of Vaucluse in Avignon. (Ottonelli first dove the cave in
> > 1878, so the route was known.) Jean Pinard made the first descent solo,
> > putting a weighted line down to 90 feet. Cousteau and Dumas, connected
> > with a buddy line, went down next.
>
> > The details of what happened next vary somewhat between reports. Somewhere
> > around 150 feet the depth gauge, carried by Dumas, imploded. At about the
> > same time, both divers became light headed and disoriented. Dumas lost his
> > mouthpiece but managed to recover it. Cousteau, confused and frightened
> > witless, frantically tried to scramble up the down line, impeded by the
> > buddy line attached to the negatively buoyant, semi-conscious Dumas.
> > Meanwhile, the surface tender, thinking the jerking line was a signal for
> > more rope, payed out line instead of pulling up. Finally, the tender
> > sensed that not all was well and began to retrieve the line. Disaster was
> > averted and two more divers, Tailliez and Morandiere, did the same dive
> > with similar results.
>
> > It was later determined that exhaust fumes had been drawn into the
> > compressor and the high partial pressure of the carbon monoxide was
> > poisoning the divers.
>
> > abstracted from my book which really is going to print someday.
>
> > esg
>
> Given your information, which is quite interesting, would you recommend a
> tester for anyone who dives? They are not cheap, but given some of the
> stories I've heard...

If the stories were told by the same guy who claimed people go blind
from diving with contacts, I wouldn't pay too much attention to them.

In the U.S., dive shops get their gas tested, hopefully. There's a
greater danger in third-world countries, but then there's a greater
danger in third-world countries from all sorts of things. Even though
CO is odorless and tasteless, it usually accompanies contaminants with
a bit more flavor. If the air tastes bad, it might be. Regardless,
I've never met anyone who tested their own gas for CO before a dive.
Maybe you'll be the first.

"Greg Mossman" <mossman@qnet.com> wrote in message
news:1172436472.014013.34680@v33g2000cwv.googlegro ups.com...
> On Feb 25, 10:33 am, "Sheldon" <shel...@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:
>> "El Stroko Guapo" <omg...@earthlink.net> wrote in
>> messagenews:cYsDh.5451$tD2.5429@newsread1.news.pas .earthlink.net...
>>
>>
>>
>> > JRE wrote:
>> >> dhjournal...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>>
>> >>> I have heard that you can loose oxygen while you are diving if you do
>> >>> not open the valve all the way or there is not the right mixture of
>> >>> carbon monoxide. How much carbon monoxide can be in your tank for you
>> >>> to still be all right, at any depth?
>>
>> >> Partially opening the valve is, um, not the right procedure. As for
>> >> CO,
>> >> according tohttp://www.scuba-doc.com/carbonmon.html:
>>
>> >> "The maximal allowable level is 20 ppm (0.002%)."
>>
>> >> John Eells
>>
>> > In late August, 1946, J. Cousteau and his merry band went cave diving
>> > in
>> > the Fountain of Vaucluse in Avignon. (Ottonelli first dove the cave in
>> > 1878, so the route was known.) Jean Pinard made the first descent solo,
>> > putting a weighted line down to 90 feet. Cousteau and Dumas, connected
>> > with a buddy line, went down next.
>>
>> > The details of what happened next vary somewhat between reports.
>> > Somewhere
>> > around 150 feet the depth gauge, carried by Dumas, imploded. At about
>> > the
>> > same time, both divers became light headed and disoriented. Dumas lost
>> > his
>> > mouthpiece but managed to recover it. Cousteau, confused and frightened
>> > witless, frantically tried to scramble up the down line, impeded by the
>> > buddy line attached to the negatively buoyant, semi-conscious Dumas.
>> > Meanwhile, the surface tender, thinking the jerking line was a signal
>> > for
>> > more rope, payed out line instead of pulling up. Finally, the tender
>> > sensed that not all was well and began to retrieve the line. Disaster
>> > was
>> > averted and two more divers, Tailliez and Morandiere, did the same dive
>> > with similar results.
>>
>> > It was later determined that exhaust fumes had been drawn into the
>> > compressor and the high partial pressure of the carbon monoxide was
>> > poisoning the divers.
>>
>> > abstracted from my book which really is going to print someday.
>>
>> > esg
>>
>> Given your information, which is quite interesting, would you recommend a
>> tester for anyone who dives? They are not cheap, but given some of the
>> stories I've heard...
>
> If the stories were told by the same guy who claimed people go blind
> from diving with contacts, I wouldn't pay too much attention to them.
>
> In the U.S., dive shops get their gas tested, hopefully. There's a
> greater danger in third-world countries, but then there's a greater
> danger in third-world countries from all sorts of things. Even though
> CO is odorless and tasteless, it usually accompanies contaminants with
> a bit more flavor. If the air tastes bad, it might be. Regardless,
> I've never met anyone who tested their own gas for CO before a dive.
> Maybe you'll be the first.
>
Well, as I said, they do make a gizmo you fit to the tank to test for CO --
http://www.lawrence-factor.com/cocop.htm

Still, as you say, there are a lot more things to worry about in certain
places and countries. As a matter of fact, if a particular country was
killing off divers with bad air it would definitely make the news.

On Feb 25, 3:36 pm, "Sheldon" <shel...@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:
> "Greg Mossman" <moss...@qnet.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1172436472.014013.34680@v33g2000cwv.googlegro ups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Feb 25, 10:33 am, "Sheldon" <shel...@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:
> >> "El Stroko Guapo" <omg...@earthlink.net> wrote in
> >> messagenews:cYsDh.5451$tD2.5429@newsread1.news.pas .earthlink.net...
>
> >> > JRE wrote:
> >> >> dhjournal...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
> >> >>> I have heard that you can loose oxygen while you are diving if you do
> >> >>> not open the valve all the way or there is not the right mixture of
> >> >>> carbon monoxide. How much carbon monoxide can be in your tank for you
> >> >>> to still be all right, at any depth?
>
> >> >> Partially opening the valve is, um, not the right procedure. As for
> >> >> CO,
> >> >> according tohttp://www.scuba-doc.com/carbonmon.html:
>
> >> >> "The maximal allowable level is 20 ppm (0.002%)."
>
> >> >> John Eells
>
> >> > In late August, 1946, J. Cousteau and his merry band went cave diving
> >> > in
> >> > the Fountain of Vaucluse in Avignon. (Ottonelli first dove the cave in
> >> > 1878, so the route was known.) Jean Pinard made the first descent solo,
> >> > putting a weighted line down to 90 feet. Cousteau and Dumas, connected
> >> > with a buddy line, went down next.
>
> >> > The details of what happened next vary somewhat between reports.
> >> > Somewhere
> >> > around 150 feet the depth gauge, carried by Dumas, imploded. At about
> >> > the
> >> > same time, both divers became light headed and disoriented. Dumas lost
> >> > his
> >> > mouthpiece but managed to recover it. Cousteau, confused and frightened
> >> > witless, frantically tried to scramble up the down line, impeded by the
> >> > buddy line attached to the negatively buoyant, semi-conscious Dumas.
> >> > Meanwhile, the surface tender, thinking the jerking line was a signal
> >> > for
> >> > more rope, payed out line instead of pulling up. Finally, the tender
> >> > sensed that not all was well and began to retrieve the line. Disaster
> >> > was
> >> > averted and two more divers, Tailliez and Morandiere, did the same dive
> >> > with similar results.
>
> >> > It was later determined that exhaust fumes had been drawn into the
> >> > compressor and the high partial pressure of the carbon monoxide was
> >> > poisoning the divers.
>
> >> > abstracted from my book which really is going to print someday.
>
> >> > esg
>
> >> Given your information, which is quite interesting, would you recommend a
> >> tester for anyone who dives? They are not cheap, but given some of the
> >> stories I've heard...
>
> > If the stories were told by the same guy who claimed people go blind
> > from diving with contacts, I wouldn't pay too much attention to them.
>
> > In the U.S., dive shops get their gas tested, hopefully. There's a
> > greater danger in third-world countries, but then there's a greater
> > danger in third-world countries from all sorts of things. Even though
> > CO is odorless and tasteless, it usually accompanies contaminants with
> > a bit more flavor. If the air tastes bad, it might be. Regardless,
> > I've never met anyone who tested their own gas for CO before a dive.
> > Maybe you'll be the first.
>
> Well, as I said, they do make a gizmo you fit to the tank to test for CO -- http://www.lawrence-factor.com/cocop.htm
>
> Still, as you say, there are a lot more things to worry about in certain
> places and countries. As a matter of fact, if a particular country was
> killing off divers with bad air it would definitely make the news.

Not if they suppress the news. It's rumored that divers have been
disappearing in certain countries for years. There used to be a lot
more rec.scubans, for example. I can't believe they all died of
natural causes.

"Greg Mossman" <mossman@qnet.com> wrote in message
news:1172452520.587157.316410@v33g2000cwv.googlegr oups.com...
> On Feb 25, 3:36 pm, "Sheldon" <shel...@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:
>> "Greg Mossman" <moss...@qnet.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1172436472.014013.34680@v33g2000cwv.googlegro ups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Feb 25, 10:33 am, "Sheldon" <shel...@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:
>> >> "El Stroko Guapo" <omg...@earthlink.net> wrote in
>> >> messagenews:cYsDh.5451$tD2.5429@newsread1.news.pas .earthlink.net...
>>
>> >> > JRE wrote:
>> >> >> dhjournal...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>>
>> >> >>> I have heard that you can loose oxygen while you are diving if you
>> >> >>> do
>> >> >>> not open the valve all the way or there is not the right mixture
>> >> >>> of
>> >> >>> carbon monoxide. How much carbon monoxide can be in your tank for
>> >> >>> you
>> >> >>> to still be all right, at any depth?
>>
>> >> >> Partially opening the valve is, um, not the right procedure. As
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> CO,
>> >> >> according tohttp://www.scuba-doc.com/carbonmon.html:
>>
>> >> >> "The maximal allowable level is 20 ppm (0.002%)."
>>
>> >> >> John Eells
>>
>> >> > In late August, 1946, J. Cousteau and his merry band went cave
>> >> > diving
>> >> > in
>> >> > the Fountain of Vaucluse in Avignon. (Ottonelli first dove the cave
>> >> > in
>> >> > 1878, so the route was known.) Jean Pinard made the first descent
>> >> > solo,
>> >> > putting a weighted line down to 90 feet. Cousteau and Dumas,
>> >> > connected
>> >> > with a buddy line, went down next.
>>
>> >> > The details of what happened next vary somewhat between reports.
>> >> > Somewhere
>> >> > around 150 feet the depth gauge, carried by Dumas, imploded. At
>> >> > about
>> >> > the
>> >> > same time, both divers became light headed and disoriented. Dumas
>> >> > lost
>> >> > his
>> >> > mouthpiece but managed to recover it. Cousteau, confused and
>> >> > frightened
>> >> > witless, frantically tried to scramble up the down line, impeded by
>> >> > the
>> >> > buddy line attached to the negatively buoyant, semi-conscious Dumas.
>> >> > Meanwhile, the surface tender, thinking the jerking line was a
>> >> > signal
>> >> > for
>> >> > more rope, payed out line instead of pulling up. Finally, the tender
>> >> > sensed that not all was well and began to retrieve the line.
>> >> > Disaster
>> >> > was
>> >> > averted and two more divers, Tailliez and Morandiere, did the same
>> >> > dive
>> >> > with similar results.
>>
>> >> > It was later determined that exhaust fumes had been drawn into the
>> >> > compressor and the high partial pressure of the carbon monoxide was
>> >> > poisoning the divers.
>>
>> >> > abstracted from my book which really is going to print someday.
>>
>> >> > esg
>>
>> >> Given your information, which is quite interesting, would you
>> >> recommend a
>> >> tester for anyone who dives? They are not cheap, but given some of
>> >> the
>> >> stories I've heard...
>>
>> > If the stories were told by the same guy who claimed people go blind
>> > from diving with contacts, I wouldn't pay too much attention to them.
>>
>> > In the U.S., dive shops get their gas tested, hopefully. There's a
>> > greater danger in third-world countries, but then there's a greater
>> > danger in third-world countries from all sorts of things. Even though
>> > CO is odorless and tasteless, it usually accompanies contaminants with
>> > a bit more flavor. If the air tastes bad, it might be. Regardless,
>> > I've never met anyone who tested their own gas for CO before a dive.
>> > Maybe you'll be the first.
>>
>> Well, as I said, they do make a gizmo you fit to the tank to test for
>> CO -- http://www.lawrence-factor.com/cocop.htm
>>
>> Still, as you say, there are a lot more things to worry about in certain
>> places and countries. As a matter of fact, if a particular country was
>> killing off divers with bad air it would definitely make the news.
>
> Not if they suppress the news. It's rumored that divers have been
> disappearing in certain countries for years. There used to be a lot
> more rec.scubans, for example. I can't believe they all died of
> natural causes.
>
Well, for the few divers who have died, the article I read said that there
are probably a bunch of divers who got sick but didn't know why. Maybe one
of those gizmos is worth it. One goes permanently on your line. The other
attaches directly to the tank and you crack the valve to test it. I don't
think it stays on after that. Either one is under $100.

On Feb 26, 2:35 pm, "Sheldon" <shel...@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:
> "Greg Mossman" <moss...@qnet.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1172452520.587157.316410@v33g2000cwv.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Feb 25, 3:36 pm, "Sheldon" <shel...@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:
> >> "Greg Mossman" <moss...@qnet.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:1172436472.014013.34680@v33g2000cwv.googleg roups.com...
>
> >> > On Feb 25, 10:33 am, "Sheldon" <shel...@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:
> >> >> "El Stroko Guapo" <omg...@earthlink.net> wrote in
> >> >> messagenews:cYsDh.5451$tD2.5429@newsread1.news.pas .earthlink.net...
>
> >> >> > JRE wrote:
> >> >> >> dhjournal...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
> >> >> >>> I have heard that you can loose oxygen while you are diving if you
> >> >> >>> do
> >> >> >>> not open the valve all the way or there is not the right mixture
> >> >> >>> of
> >> >> >>> carbon monoxide. How much carbon monoxide can be in your tank for
> >> >> >>> you
> >> >> >>> to still be all right, at any depth?
>
> >> >> >> Partially opening the valve is, um, not the right procedure. As
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> CO,
> >> >> >> according tohttp://www.scuba-doc.com/carbonmon.html:
>
> >> >> >> "The maximal allowable level is 20 ppm (0.002%)."
>
> >> >> >> John Eells
>
> >> >> > In late August, 1946, J. Cousteau and his merry band went cave
> >> >> > diving
> >> >> > in
> >> >> > the Fountain of Vaucluse in Avignon. (Ottonelli first dove the cave
> >> >> > in
> >> >> > 1878, so the route was known.) Jean Pinard made the first descent
> >> >> > solo,
> >> >> > putting a weighted line down to 90 feet. Cousteau and Dumas,
> >> >> > connected
> >> >> > with a buddy line, went down next.
>
> >> >> > The details of what happened next vary somewhat between reports.
> >> >> > Somewhere
> >> >> > around 150 feet the depth gauge, carried by Dumas, imploded. At
> >> >> > about
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > same time, both divers became light headed and disoriented. Dumas
> >> >> > lost
> >> >> > his
> >> >> > mouthpiece but managed to recover it. Cousteau, confused and
> >> >> > frightened
> >> >> > witless, frantically tried to scramble up the down line, impeded by
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > buddy line attached to the negatively buoyant, semi-conscious Dumas.
> >> >> > Meanwhile, the surface tender, thinking the jerking line was a
> >> >> > signal
> >> >> > for
> >> >> > more rope, payed out line instead of pulling up. Finally, the tender
> >> >> > sensed that not all was well and began to retrieve the line.
> >> >> > Disaster
> >> >> > was
> >> >> > averted and two more divers, Tailliez and Morandiere, did the same
> >> >> > dive
> >> >> > with similar results.
>
> >> >> > It was later determined that exhaust fumes had been drawn into the
> >> >> > compressor and the high partial pressure of the carbon monoxide was
> >> >> > poisoning the divers.
>
> >> >> > abstracted from my book which really is going to print someday.
>
> >> >> > esg
>
> >> >> Given your information, which is quite interesting, would you
> >> >> recommend a
> >> >> tester for anyone who dives? They are not cheap, but given some of
> >> >> the
> >> >> stories I've heard...
>
> >> > If the stories were told by the same guy who claimed people go blind
> >> > from diving with contacts, I wouldn't pay too much attention to them.
>
> >> > In the U.S., dive shops get their gas tested, hopefully. There's a
> >> > greater danger in third-world countries, but then there's a greater
> >> > danger in third-world countries from all sorts of things. Even though
> >> > CO is odorless and tasteless, it usually accompanies contaminants with
> >> > a bit more flavor. If the air tastes bad, it might be. Regardless,
> >> > I've never met anyone who tested their own gas for CO before a dive.
> >> > Maybe you'll be the first.
>
> >> Well, as I said, they do make a gizmo you fit to the tank to test for
> >> CO -- http://www.lawrence-factor.com/cocop.htm
>
> >> Still, as you say, there are a lot more things to worry about in certain
> >> places and countries. As a matter of fact, if a particular country was
> >> killing off divers with bad air it would definitely make the news.
>
> > Not if they suppress the news. It's rumored that divers have been
> > disappearing in certain countries for years. There used to be a lot
> > more rec.scubans, for example. I can't believe they all died of
> > natural causes.
>
> Well, for the few divers who have died, the article I read said that there
> are probably a bunch of divers who got sick but didn't know why. Maybe one
> of those gizmos is worth it. One goes permanently on your line. The other
> attaches directly to the tank and you crack the valve to test it. I don't
> think it stays on after that. Either one is under $100.

Maybe I need that. I've gotten sick from diving plenty of times, but
always blamed it on seasickness or vertigo, usually with an underlying
hangover. And here I could have blamed it all on CO poisoning.