Been to Koh Tao, should I go to PERHENTIANS?

In article <h1sGe.18885$aY6.3263@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink .net>,
leebell@ix.netcom.com (Lee Bell) wrote:

> The mistaken shooting of a Brazilian man has been a hot
> topic for a while, one that I helped fuel. Hopefully, the British will
> find a new balance between security and human rights that will keep
> them both relatively safe and relatively happy, and not result in any
> more mistaken killings.

Just to get things into perspective......the Brazillian apparently came
from San Paolo in Brazil, in that city there are a "reported" 600
civillians mistakenly killed each year.....
I though that number was very high but i heard it on the BBC.......

It does NOT mitigate his demise in any way though.

> The problem is largely a matter
> of no more fresh meat. Like here, the regulars have long since
> resolved everything worthy of resolution and there just aren't enough
> newcomers to keep diving discussions going.

Well i hope Nitrox or Not has helped in some small way........judging by
the comments i would say it has.

Dave Morgan @ Work in the UK
Take out the "goes diving" bit....
Trip photos on line at www.morg.co.uk

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 15:29:02 GMT, Lee Bell wrote:
> "Art Greenberg" wrote
>
> > IMO, an unnecessary complication in dive planning. One should select the
> > bottom mix for *the* maximum depth possible ... without a shovel.
>
> Cool. What mix do you use when diving a wall where the bottom is 6,000 feet
> below?

I was waiting for someone to ask that .... and since I know that you know the
answer, I can only conclude that you are asking just to cause mischief.

--
Art Greenberg
artg AT eclipse (remove this) DOT net

> Just to get back on thread........Would it be ok to use nitrox after 2
> or 3 dives (in a day) in the no deco time was getting low ?

Sure. If you think it through, it only makes sense. All predominantly
oxygen/nitrogen breathing gas is, technically, nitrox, from 21%, which we
call air, to 100%, which we call Oxygen. As long as you watch you maximum
depths for each mix and correctly calculate the nitrogen loading and
unloading for each dive, you can mix and match gas to your heart's content,
and the conditions of the dive. Of course, remembering the MOD for each gas
and correctly calculating nitrogen transfer can be a bit of a pain. Lucky
for us, they make nitrox dive computers to do it for us.

The time effect of oxygen has been mentioned. On my most intense dive
schedules, my once a year spearfishing and lobstering live aboard trips, I
breath 32% on most dives. Sometime around the second day, however, I begin
to push the total time my computer things I should be breathing a higher O2
content gas. To make it happy, and avoid pulmonary toxicity (irritated
lungs), I switch to air for a few dives and then, as the effects of the dive
the previous day begin to drop off, switch back to 32%. I keep both my O2
exposure and my N2 loading within safe limits by switching between gases
depending on which exposure is, at that time, the greatest risk.

I used to do much the same in reverse. When nitrox was what I considered
expensive, I would breathe air for the first dive and, to maximize the
second dive after being partially loaded with nitrogen on the first dive,
I'd switch to nitrox. These days, because the relative cost of nitrox is
lower and because my disposable income is higher, I would use nitrox for
both dives.

Actually, nitrox works a lot better for me than for the average newer diver.
Thanks to many, many years of diving, I'm very relaxed in the water. As a
result, my consumption is quite low. On air, I have no problem staying deep
enough, long enough to require decompression on my first dive of a day,
using a single tank. Nitrox lets me use more of my gas while staying below,
or only a little over, my no deco limit. It is a clear advantage to me.
It's not so clear an advantage for everybody.

>> Would the higher % (36) be beneficial or better in this instance ?
> Yes

Provided you are within the MOD for 36%

>> Whats the MOD for 36% ?
> 28.8 PPO2 1.4
> 34.4 PPO2 1.6

In meters.

"Art Greenberg" wrote

>> > IMO, an unnecessary complication in dive planning. One should select
>> > the
>> > bottom mix for *the* maximum depth possible ... without a shovel.
>>
>> Cool. What mix do you use when diving a wall where the bottom is 6,000
>> feet
>> below?
>
> I was waiting for someone to ask that .... and since I know that you know
> the
> answer, I can only conclude that you are asking just to cause mischief.

Who me? Nah, never happen.

Lee

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:22:38 GMT, Lee Bell wrote:
> "Art Greenberg" wrote
> > I can only conclude that you are asking just to cause mischief.
>
> Who me? Nah, never happen.

8-)

--
Art Greenberg
artg AT eclipse (remove this) DOT net

"Stef" <scuba@mostly-diving.REMOVE.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns96A2A5AC28FD4ekbedcad@212.23.3.119...

> I did worry about you Gregg, hence my comment about meeting the girls,

Which, since I thought you were a girl, only made it worse . . .

> and don't worry too much you didn't flirt with a poofter!!!

Is it OK if I call you Steve instead? I had a crush on a friend's sister in
high school named Stef.

> Usually, but not always, the female version has 2 f's or a ph.

You know how girls are nowadays.

Besides, my middle name is Stephen, so I suppose you could shorten that with
"Steph". Perhaps that's why some girls are named Stefanie, so people don't
pronounce their names like "Steve-anie".

In any case, you have a lot of proving yourself to do before I can consider
you "one of the guys".

Stef wrote:

> I might get shot down in flames for this but...
> If you can't get your head around the formulae don't worry, put another
> dollar in for the nitrox course and you'll get tables for 32% and 36%
> which are the two most common fills.


> You also get an Equivalent Air Depth (EAD) table... <deep breath>
> The EAD will tell you what depth to plan for using your regular (air)
> dive tables based on Nitrogen exposure.
> Somebody will be along in a minute to complicate that sentence

Actually, I'm going to simplify it. The tables you get may be useful for some general
planning, but for recreational dives, you'll get more bang for your buck by using a
computer. A nitrox computer will, barring some kind of failure, always remember the
proper formulas, do all the math for you, and advise you on when you're either
absorbing too much N2 or breathing too much O2. I'm a firm believer that the more
knowledge you've gotten (and retained), the better off you'll be, but as much as you
would trust your dive planning to an air computer you can trust it to a nitrox computer.



--
Steve

The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.

In article <mlIGe.187$ns.169@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net >,
leebell@ix.netcom.com (Lee Bell) wrote:

>
> Not everybody buys the "safer" aspect of nitrox. At least one
> knowledgeable poster in this group maintains that you are either safe
> or you are not and that, anybody conservatively within the tables and
> above the MOD for the gas he's using is probably safe whether he's
> breathing air or nitrox (narcosis issues aside).

I would agree with that, but i would think that you can only use belief on
the dive you are doing at the time, the next dive that you had'nt planned
on that is going to be sprung on you just might need that extra bit of
depth and time, and its what you have done previously that governs what
you can do next.......or have i got it all wrong ?

> While there's some
> merit to his position, I tend to believe that there is an incremental
> advantage to being further from the danger point, but that's not my
> primary reason for using nitrox.

Agreed.

> Many, including me, use nitrox to dive longer without a increased
> decompression risk.
> When I'm enjoying a dive, I don't want to
> come up any sooner than necessary

I have to be honest and come clean here, recently while diving our little
"Rig" off Mabul i would not look for my buddy untill i was sucking through
the cotton wool........even with the alternate in my mouth i wanted to get
just one more shot...........


Dave Morgan @ Work in the UK
Take out the "goes diving" bit....
Trip photos on line at www.morg.co.uk

<morgand@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote

> I would agree with that, but i would think that you can only use belief on
> the dive you are doing at the time, the next dive that you had'nt planned
> on that is going to be sprung on you just might need that extra bit of
> depth and time, and its what you have done previously that governs what
> you can do next.......or have i got it all wrong ?

You've got it right, but you're more on my track than his, focusing on the
availability of additional time. Generally speaking, I try to have as good
an idea of what I'll be doing later before I do the first dive of the day.
That's the only way I can balance time available for those subsequent dives
with the time I'd like to have for the later ones. Usually, though, we're
only talking about dives to be done after only the shortest of surface
intervals, up to about an hour. A couple of hours between dives makes a
large difference in the time available for the next one.

> I have to be honest and come clean here, recently while diving our little
> "Rig" off Mabul i would not look for my buddy untill i was sucking through
> the cotton wool........even with the alternate in my mouth i wanted to get
> just one more shot...........

I don't have to tell you what's wrong with that. You already know. A few
years ago, I had headed for the surface on a spearfishing/lobstering dive
when I realized my favorite lobster snare was missing. I submerged to where
I could see the bottom and retraced my drift by finning up current. About
the time I spotted the snare on the bottom, it got very hard to draw the
next breath. With the old unbalanced first stages, it got harder to breathe
when you were down to about 500 psi. That's probably where the common dive
boat rule of coming to the surface with 500 psi originated. With today's
balanced first stages, you get about two breaths after it gets hard to
breathe before you are completely out. I had to decide whether to take a
chance I could recover my snare and get back up without incident or head up
and kiss my favorite snare goodbye for ever. I chose up. That's the only
time I ever really wanted an independent back. With nothing more than a
Spare Air, I would still have that snare. If I had one, I would have abused
it.

I've never found another snare like that one.

Lee

"Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:RfsGe.18890$aY6.9167@newsread1.news.atl.earth link.net...
> "Dan Bracuk" wrote
>
>> I could drive to Florida, but prefer to fly, which makes it equivalent
>> in accessibility to the Caribbean. Having said that, I think Looe Key
>> is as nice as anywhere I have been in the Caribbean. Ya never know, I
>> might go back one day.
>
> It used to be one of the best shallow water sites anywhere. Maybe it
> still is.

Back in the early '80s, there used to be a liveaboard that did 3 days trips
to Looe Key. The boat was called Reef Rover (it was more a bunk-boat than
liveaboard) and was an excellent way to get 15 to 20 dives in at Looe. It
was a very good way to dive the drop-off as well. I did that boat, I think,
3 times. Yes, Lee and Dan are correct....Looe, both shallow and at the
drop-off, was at the pinnacle of diving in the Florida Keys.

Some of you Florida divers from those days might remember the Impossible
Dream...Dan Wagner's tub that generally cruised to Cay Sal. Well, Dan was
also involved, somehow, in the ownership and operation of Reef Rover, which
more than likely explains it's eventual demise :^)