Been to Koh Tao, should I go to PERHENTIANS?

Thus spake morgand@cix.compulink.co.uk :

>In article <nv92f1tfp55f3h9ai49mc8k3m3m89dapii@4ax.com>,
>dmpyronINVALID@austin.rr.com (Dillon Pyron) wrote:
>
>>
>> Did another dive to 130, didn't have a problem. Both dives were in
>> Kona with Dive Makai. Did I say I like them?
>
>What depth are you at now ??????? ;^)

+ 651 feet.

>
>Dave Morgan @ Work in the UK
>Take out the "goes diving" bit....
>Trip photos on line at www.morg.co.uk

--
dillon

Linux, it's not just an OS, it's a way
of life.

And a damn fine one, at that.

Thus spake morgand@cix.compulink.co.uk :

>In article <R7nIe.684$RZ2.210@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.ne t>,
>leebell@ix.netcom.com (Lee Bell) wrote:
>
>>
>> It's not a safety limit, it's a measurement that you can use to set
>> your personal safety limit.
>
>Hang on a minute...........either it is a safety limit or its not,
>32%...pp02 1.4 = 111ft going down or working, surely that IS the safe
>limit ? divers may decide to make exceptions to it based upon their own
>experience(s) but it is a "published" and "recognised" safety
>limit.....yes....?

The tables are "published" and "recognized" safety limits, yet people
get bent diving tables.

>
>Dave Morgan @ Work in the UK
>Take out the "goes diving" bit....
>Trip photos on line at www.morg.co.uk

--
dillon

Linux, it's not just an OS, it's a way
of life.

And a damn fine one, at that.

<morgand@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote

> OK.......so i take the course next week, dive the next day on 32%, what do
> you think i should set as MY safety limit.....
> If i told my instructor that i planned to dive on 32%, and asked him what
> my safe depth limit should be, can you hazard a guess as to what depth he
> would recommend ?

If it's a PADI instructor, yes. If it's a good instructor, PADI or
otherwise, I would hope he would say something like a max PPO2 of 1.4 is
recommended for the working portion of a dive. 1.6 is probably OK for non
working portions such as decompression.

> Do you think were getting hung up on the words "safety" and "limit".....

Limit, yes. That's my point in this part of the discussion. 1.4, 1.5, 1.6
are simply measurements of partial pressure. You chose among them based on
whatever factors you think are most important. What you chose is the limit.
The PPO2 is simply a measurement tool. I don't know if I mentioned it in
this thread, so I'll try to provide an example. Personally, I plan my dive
for a PPO2 of 1.4. Unless something comes up, I pretty much stick to it.
I'm comfortable that I'm safe from CNS Toxicity at this level. I'm a very
relaxed, low exertion diver. I'm reasonably confortable that I'm safe from
CNS Toxicity at a partial pressure of 1.5, too. It would not take much to
get me to go beyond 1.4. A pretty fish I wanted to see would probably do
it. I'm uncertain how safe I am at a partial pressure of 1.6, but I suspect
I'm still OK. If rapid decompression is a need, then I would go to 1.6
without a lot of concern. If a buddy were in trouble at a depth
representing a PPO2 of 1.6, I would not hesitate to help. Anything beyond
1.6 is beyond what I'm comfortable with. It's not likely to be instantly
deadly and may not even be a significant problem, but I can't be sure. I
know a very experienced tech diver who took a CNS hit, convulsions and all,
at a PPO2 of 1.6, while decompressing. If he had not had immediate help, he
would be dead. So, 1.6 is my safety limit, but only because it's the one I
chose.

You may, probably will, and probably should, chose differently . . . for
now. This time next year, you may be doing deco stops at 1.6 too.

How fast is the safe driving limit?

Lee

<morgand@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote

> OK.......so i take the course next week, dive the next day on 32%, what do
> you think i should set as MY safety limit.....
> If i told my instructor that i planned to dive on 32%, and asked him what
> my safe depth limit should be, can you hazard a guess as to what depth he
> would recommend ?

If it's a PADI instructor, yes. If it's a good instructor, PADI or
otherwise, I would hope he would say something like a max PPO2 of 1.4 is
recommended for the working portion of a dive. 1.6 is probably OK for non
working portions such as decompression.

> Do you think were getting hung up on the words "safety" and "limit".....

Limit, yes. That's my point in this part of the discussion. 1.4, 1.5, 1.6
are simply measurements of partial pressure. You chose among them based on
whatever factors you think are most important. What you chose is the limit.
The PPO2 is simply a measurement tool. I don't know if I mentioned it in
this thread, so I'll try to provide an example. Personally, I plan my dive
for a PPO2 of 1.4. Unless something comes up, I pretty much stick to it.
I'm comfortable that I'm safe from CNS Toxicity at this level. I'm a very
relaxed, low exertion diver. I'm reasonably confortable that I'm safe from
CNS Toxicity at a partial pressure of 1.5, too. It would not take much to
get me to go beyond 1.4. A pretty fish I wanted to see would probably do
it. I'm uncertain how safe I am at a partial pressure of 1.6, but I suspect
I'm still OK. If rapid decompression is a need, then I would go to 1.6
without a lot of concern. If a buddy were in trouble at a depth
representing a PPO2 of 1.6, I would not hesitate to help. Anything beyond
1.6 is beyond what I'm comfortable with. It's not likely to be instantly
deadly and may not even be a significant problem, but I can't be sure. I
know a very experienced tech diver who took a CNS hit, convulsions and all,
at a PPO2 of 1.6, while decompressing. If he had not had immediate help, he
would be dead. So, 1.6 is my safety limit, but only because it's the one I
chose.

You may, probably will, and probably should, chose differently . . . for
now. This time next year, you may be doing deco stops at 1.6 too.

How fast is the safe driving limit?

Lee

Thus spake "Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.netcom.com> :

><morgand@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote
>

<snip> read it!!!

>How fast is the safe driving limit?

On MoPac? Nothing below 60. It all depends on the level of
acceptable risk.

>
>Lee
>

--
dillon

Linux, it's not just an OS, it's a way
of life.

And a damn fine one, at that.

"Dillon Pyron" <dmpyronINVALID@austin.rr.com> wrote

>>How fast is the safe driving limit?
>
> On MoPac? Nothing below 60. It all depends on the level of
> acceptable risk.

Dillon's figured it out.

Lee

Thus spake "Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.netcom.com> :

>"Dillon Pyron" wrote
>
>> The tables are "published" and "recognized" safety limits, yet people
>> get bent diving tables.
>
>Actually, I have at least three sets of tables, all adjusted versions of the
>US Navy tables. Each varies from the others in some small respects. The
>most dramatic variation, however, is the SSI tables that are very similar to
>the navy tables but have superimposed limits based on doppler testing. I'd
>be hard pressed to say there's a clear limit there, but there is plenty of
>food for thought.
>
>Lee
>

I don't think we disagree so much as have a difference in semantics.
But you're right, there are different tables.
--
dillon

Linux, it's not just an OS, it's a way
of life.

And a damn fine one, at that.

<morgand@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote

>> You may, probably will, and probably should, chose differently . . .
>> for now. This time next year, you may be doing deco stops at 1.6 too.
>>
>> How fast is the safe driving limit?
>
> Where......? Depends on the surrounding's and the legislation in force.

It does depend on the surroundings. It also depends on the equipment you're
using and your driving skills. Legislation is significant to safe only in
that it creates an expectation on the part of other drivers.

Regardless, you've made the point I was trying to communicate. There is not
one "safe limit" for all people, in all circumstances, at all times. These
things vary with the circumstances, equipment and knowledge available at the
time. Even agency recommendations vary with circumstances.

Lee

In article <udHJe.2458$RZ2.395@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.n et>,
leebell@ix.netcom.com (Lee Bell) wrote:

> It does depend on the surroundings. It also depends on the equipment
> you're using and your driving skills. Legislation is significant to
> safe only in that it creates an expectation on the part of other
> drivers.
>
> Regardless, you've made the point I was trying to communicate. There
> is not one "safe limit" for all people, in all circumstances, at all
> times. These things vary with the circumstances, equipment and
> knowledge available at the time. Even agency recommendations vary with
> circumstances.

I accept all that, but, there are different speed limits, they are not
open to driver discretion irrespective of how good a driver they may be,
whether its 3am and a dead strait road with no other traffic about, the
limit is mandatory despite what the driver thinks......after all, we all
think we are good (safe) drivers dont we ?

Mind you........i wondered what that 34m (111ft) sign was as i passed it
on my way down to 40m, i was'nt sure if it was saying "this IS 34m" or it
was saying "reduce your descent" 34m !
;^)

Dave Morgan @ Work in the UK
Take out the "goes diving" bit....
Trip photos on line at www.morg.co.uk

In article <S1IJe.2464$RZ2.714@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.n et>,
leebell@ix.netcom.com (Lee Bell) wrote:

>
> Never see anybody driving above the posted speed limit? Ever seen
> anybody driving below the posted speed limit? Do you doubt that each
> chose a limit they consider safe? Do you doubt that, sometimes, both
> the speeder and the slower driver, are both safe?

Seen loads of accidents, dont remember seeing any caused by drivers or
divers from being within their respective limits.
There is always the driver that will drive at 40mph on a motorway where
the "limit" is 70.......i guess they could be judged to be driving
dangerously even though inside the limit.......
There are always one off's.....

> Legal and safe are not the same.

Thats why some drivers drive slower than the Limit.

> That which is illegal, may still be
> safe.

For that individual in that space and time but laws and limits (laws
aside) are made to protect the majority.


> That which is legal, may not be.

Like ?..........
If you dont break the law you dont get into trouble...

> So far, at least in the States,
> recreational diving is, for the most part, free of legal constraints.

I dont know if there are any law's here in the UK ? Stef.......

Dave Morgan @ Work in the UK
Take out the "goes diving" bit....
Trip photos on line at www.morg.co.uk