Thinking about charging for work...

People skills are extremely important, both in sales and in taking
pictures. People skill might be even more important than technical
skills.

To expand on my previous comments, the first thing you need to do is
assess your skills, personality, desired workload and what it is you
want to do. There is a world of difference between being the next
Ansel Adams and a wedding photographer. So do what you enjoy doing.
If it's weddings, go volunteer to do some, even if you have to go to a
poor church in a poor neighborhood where the people can't afford a
"real" photographer. Whatever you do, you need to find a way to
practice it.

Finally, don't oversell yourself. Explain what you do and what your
style is. At the same time, find out what makes you different than the
guy down the street.

Good luck.

Pat.

BD wrote:
> > Good luck with it.
>
> Hmmm. No big surprise that the market has no shortage - if _I_ can
> teach myself this kind of thing, there must be scores of others like
> me, with more of a portfolio to boot. I guess I just have to be
> 'exceptionally good', or have some kind of angle.
>
> I won't give up my day job just yet. ;)

BD wrote:
> Hey all...
>
> So I've been shooting with decent gear for only a couple of years. I've
> gotten a lot of very positive feedback on some of my work, and have
> been told numerous times that I could make money at it.
>
snipped
>
> Is that an unusual combination of skills? I'm really thinking I could
> make something of this.
>
> Obviously, I need a portfolio, and some framing samples that I could
> show people (which I'm working on)...
>
> But for me, as a potential customer, the ability to have a 'one-stop
> shop', from the shooting to the post-work to the framing, does have its
> appeal...
>
> Any thoughts?? Encouragements? Reality checks?
>
> Thanks!!
>
The concept that being good at what you do is enough to found a business
on is flawed in the extreme. If you'd started off by saying you had a
brilliant idea for how to *RUN* a photographic business or a great idea
for something new in the photography business, I might not be so cynical.

Every year for the past 6 years, I have trained at least one (usually
two) camera persons to do my Santa shoots. Every year I have to compete
with last year's trainee to get the site because they think being able
to do it and having the same camera as I used last year, is enough. It's
not.

You're only partly on the ball when you say anyone can buy a digicam and
get good shots. Good as in clear, correctly exposed pictures, maybe. It
takes a little more than a digicam and confidence to take 150 wedding
photos and not discard any for one reason or another.

It also takes a lot of dedication to tasks like publicity letters and
book keeping as well as keeping up with and inventing new ways to
exploit your business.

Picture framers are a dime a dozen. Anyone with a couple of grand can
buy a chomp machine and make perfectly aligned frames. This is even more
likely than with losing work to another photographer.

I can't tell you how to be successful at business. What I can tell you
is some hard information you would do well to listen to...

1. Too many people are so busy making a living, they don't have time to
make any money! (circa 1962)

2. If you limit your income potential to selling only what you make with
your own hands, you'll never make much unless you get into artificial
hearts. Circa 1968)

3. If you are not able to manage business accounts now. Learn before
going any further or you'll end up broke. (Circa 1969)

4. If you don't charge enough to be able to replace your gear as it
wears out, you'll go broke as sure as if you spend your time drinking
pinacolada on the beach with pretty women... You decide which is better
and learn how to "Rip people off" according to the rabble in these
groups. Only then, will you make a decent living. (Circa 2006)

I just replaced $160,000 worth of printers and cameras... My profit from
the past 2 years. All gone... Start again.

Prices up, so sorry but long after you've finished choking on my price,
you'll find joy in looking at what you go for it!!!

--
From Douglas...
My photographic site: http://www.douglasjames.com.au
Canvas Archival and Metallic Prints: http://www.canvasphotos.com.au

"BD" <bobby_dread@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150918021.170306.294510@m73g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com...
> Hey all...
>
> So I've been shooting with decent gear for only a couple of years. I've
> gotten a lot of very positive feedback on some of my work, and have
> been told numerous times that I could make money at it.
>
> But, I also know that nowadays, decent camera gear is accessible enough
> that anyone with a little money and a little talent can do decent work.
>
> Over the last while, however, some additional things are beginning to
> gel in my mind:
>
> -I've been a Photoshop user for several years, and can do everything
> from the basics to 'disaster recovery' - I recently was handed a shot
> that a couple took on their honeymoon, in which the camera was placed
> incorrectly and then the groom ran into the shot. The top of his head
> was cut off, as was the end of the bride's dress. I recovered that shot
> by adding some real estate to the image, cloning, and some very
> detailed repainting - to the point that the couple is almost baffled
> with the result. Nice to see.
>
> -As well, I'm now getting into framing - I can do everything from
> building and finishing the wood, to cutting the glass and the
> matting... Bought a Logan cutter last week, and it'll pay for itself
> with the 5 double-mat 12x18s that I have planned as a first set.
>
> I'm starting to see that I really have all the skills to take pictures,
> fix and alter pictures, and frame pictures. The markup on custom
> framing is mortifying, and even after knowing enough to get good rag
> matting and all that (ie not use crap), I'm still saving about 60% off
> retail.
>
> Is that an unusual combination of skills? I'm really thinking I could
> make something of this.
>
> Obviously, I need a portfolio, and some framing samples that I could
> show people (which I'm working on)...
>
> But for me, as a potential customer, the ability to have a 'one-stop
> shop', from the shooting to the post-work to the framing, does have its
> appeal...
>
> Any thoughts?? Encouragements? Reality checks?

Your may perhaps need to advertise yourself - best place to start is with a
good modeling book that contains Model agency addresses as well as Modeling
agency e-mails addresses. This is a great place to start even if you don't
shoot models. Modeling Agency's primary goal is to increase their profits -
send them samples of your work. If anything is appealing they will send you
to the right people. An acceptable image should read as follows:
XX_thepond.jpg XX is your first and last name initial, followed by the name
of your image.

In article <1150918021.170306.294510@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups .com>, BD
<bobby_dread@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Any thoughts?? Encouragements? Reality checks?

Ever think of learning about lighting and posing?

Dmac wrote:
> BD wrote:
> > Hey all...
> >
> > So I've been shooting with decent gear for only a couple of years. I've
> > gotten a lot of very positive feedback on some of my work, and have
> > been told numerous times that I could make money at it.
> >
> snipped
> >
> > Is that an unusual combination of skills? I'm really thinking I could
> > make something of this.
> >
> > Obviously, I need a portfolio, and some framing samples that I could
> > show people (which I'm working on)...
> >
> > But for me, as a potential customer, the ability to have a 'one-stop
> > shop', from the shooting to the post-work to the framing, does have its
> > appeal...
> >
> > Any thoughts?? Encouragements? Reality checks?
> >
> > Thanks!!
> >
> The concept that being good at what you do is enough to found a business
> on is flawed in the extreme. If you'd started off by saying you had a
> brilliant idea for how to *RUN* a photographic business or a great idea
> for something new in the photography business, I might not be so cynical.
>
> Every year for the past 6 years, I have trained at least one (usually
> two) camera persons to do my Santa shoots. Every year I have to compete
> with last year's trainee to get the site because they think being able
> to do it and having the same camera as I used last year, is enough. It's
> not.
>
> You're only partly on the ball when you say anyone can buy a digicam and
> get good shots. Good as in clear, correctly exposed pictures, maybe. It
> takes a little more than a digicam and confidence to take 150 wedding
> photos and not discard any for one reason or another.
>
> It also takes a lot of dedication to tasks like publicity letters and
> book keeping as well as keeping up with and inventing new ways to
> exploit your business.
>
> Picture framers are a dime a dozen. Anyone with a couple of grand can
> buy a chomp machine and make perfectly aligned frames. This is even more
> likely than with losing work to another photographer.
>
> I can't tell you how to be successful at business. What I can tell you
> is some hard information you would do well to listen to...
>
> 1. Too many people are so busy making a living, they don't have time to
> make any money! (circa 1962)
>
> 2. If you limit your income potential to selling only what you make with
> your own hands, you'll never make much unless you get into artificial
> hearts. Circa 1968)
>
> 3. If you are not able to manage business accounts now. Learn before
> going any further or you'll end up broke. (Circa 1969)
>
> 4. If you don't charge enough to be able to replace your gear as it
> wears out, you'll go broke as sure as if you spend your time drinking
> pinacolada on the beach with pretty women... You decide which is better
> and learn how to "Rip people off" according to the rabble in these
> groups. Only then, will you make a decent living. (Circa 2006)
>
> I just replaced $160,000 worth of printers and cameras... My profit from
> the past 2 years. All gone... Start again.
>
> Prices up, so sorry but long after you've finished choking on my price,
> you'll find joy in looking at what you go for it!!!
>
> --
> From Douglas...
> My photographic site: http://www.douglasjames.com.au
> Canvas Archival and Metallic Prints: http://www.canvasphotos.com.au

5. Have your Santa shooters sign non-compete clauses and remind them
on the last day of employment remind them of it.

Gosh, sounds like you've got a lot of options. Have you found a subject
area that really interests you? You have to shoot what you love. And
remember the old adage, it's not what you know; it's who you know. I've
only been photographing for six years. But right from the get-go, I had
my subject matter and fell in love with it--mid-century modern motel
signs. Come to think about it mid-century modern anything. Here's one
of my shoots, I think you'll find it quite
humorous...http://digitalartphotographyfordummi...allery_15.html
Again, find what you like, meet people who like the same things you do
and shoot away for pay.
BD wrote:
> Hey all...
>
> So I've been shooting with decent gear for only a couple of years. I've
> gotten a lot of very positive feedback on some of my work, and have
> been told numerous times that I could make money at it.
>
> But, I also know that nowadays, decent camera gear is accessible enough
> that anyone with a little money and a little talent can do decent work.
>
> Over the last while, however, some additional things are beginning to
> gel in my mind:
>
> -I've been a Photoshop user for several years, and can do everything
> from the basics to 'disaster recovery' - I recently was handed a shot
> that a couple took on their honeymoon, in which the camera was placed
> incorrectly and then the groom ran into the shot. The top of his head
> was cut off, as was the end of the bride's dress. I recovered that shot
> by adding some real estate to the image, cloning, and some very
> detailed repainting - to the point that the couple is almost baffled
> with the result. Nice to see.
>
> -As well, I'm now getting into framing - I can do everything from
> building and finishing the wood, to cutting the glass and the
> matting... Bought a Logan cutter last week, and it'll pay for itself
> with the 5 double-mat 12x18s that I have planned as a first set.
>
> I'm starting to see that I really have all the skills to take pictures,
> fix and alter pictures, and frame pictures. The markup on custom
> framing is mortifying, and even after knowing enough to get good rag
> matting and all that (ie not use crap), I'm still saving about 60% off
> retail.
>
> Is that an unusual combination of skills? I'm really thinking I could
> make something of this.
>
> Obviously, I need a portfolio, and some framing samples that I could
> show people (which I'm working on)...
>
> But for me, as a potential customer, the ability to have a 'one-stop
> shop', from the shooting to the post-work to the framing, does have its
> appeal...
>
> Any thoughts?? Encouragements? Reality checks?
>
> Thanks!!

--
You've gotten a lot of a good advice, BD. I think you should pursue
your passion or you will always regret not doing it. I suggest a good
business plan and remember the importance of customer service. I know
a lot of professional photographers who are very talented but wouldn't
deal with because of their arrogance.

Good luck

Bill in Lake Charles

BD wrote:
> Hey all...
>
> So I've been shooting with decent gear for only a couple of years. I've
> gotten a lot of very positive feedback on some of my work, and have
> been told numerous times that I could make money at it.

Told by who - friends and family or professional photographers?

> -I've been a Photoshop user for several years, and can do everything
> from the basics to 'disaster recovery'


> -As well, I'm now getting into framing - I can do everything from
> building and finishing the wood, to cutting the glass and the
> matting...

> Is that an unusual combination of skills? I'm really thinking I could
> make something of this.

Where's your strength - shooting, photo rework, or framing? Concentrate
where you are best and what will have the highest profit margin.

> Obviously, I need a portfolio,

You need a book or two.

> and some framing samples that I could show people (which I'm working on)...

Obviously!

> Ever think of learning about lighting and posing?

Of course. That was the point of a recent shoot - I wanted to
experiment with certain lighting techniques I'd been researching, some
of which worked quite effectively. Clearly, I need more practice. But
yes.

Matt wrote:
> Gosh, sounds like you've got a lot of options. Have you found a
> subject area that really interests you? You have to shoot what you
> love. And remember the old adage, it's not what you know; it's who
> you know. I've only been photographing for six years. But right from
> the get-go, I had my subject matter and fell in love with
> it--mid-century modern motel signs. Come to think about it
> mid-century modern anything. Here's one of my shoots, I think you'll
> find it quite
> humorous...http://digitalartphotographyfordummi...allery_15.html

Shooting Mamie?

Beat you to it:
http://home.san.rr.com/fsheff/mamie00.htm

--
Frank ess