Rechargeable batter life related question

I have been using rechargeable Energizer 2300 mAh AA batteries for the
past 2 years.

Now, the batteries don't last much longer in my Canon S1 IS camera.
Some times, I get low battery blinker soon after 10 pictures or so. I
don't use the LCD much.

Is it normal for these kinds of batteries after 2 years of normal use?
I read a rechargeable battery review on the Internet where they rated
Energizer 2300 mAh batteries on top.

I am wondering if I should buy new set of batteries or if there is
something wrong with the charger.

Thanks for your time.

skarkada@gmail.com writes:
> Is it normal for these kinds of batteries after 2 years of normal use?
> I read a rechargeable battery review on the Internet where they rated
> Energizer 2300 mAh batteries on top.
>
> I am wondering if I should buy new set of batteries or if there is
> something wrong with the charger.

I think those batteries may have a high rate of early failure. I have
a lot of bad ones myself. I suggest getting some new batteries. I
suggest Sanyo Eneloops. These are being marketed as some kind of new
technology that reduces self-discharge, but I think they're just
existing technology applied more conservatively instead of trying to
reach the limits of capacity. The result (in my theory) is lower
capacity, slower self-discharge, and more reliability, similar to the
old 1700 mah cells.

On 16 Dec 2006 17:23:12 -0800, skarkada@gmail.com wrote:

> I have been using rechargeable Energizer 2300 mAh AA batteries for the
> past 2 years.
>
> Now, the batteries don't last much longer in my Canon S1 IS camera.
> Some times, I get low battery blinker soon after 10 pictures or so. I
> don't use the LCD much.
>
> Is it normal for these kinds of batteries after 2 years of normal use?
> I read a rechargeable battery review on the Internet where they rated
> Energizer 2300 mAh batteries on top.
>
> I am wondering if I should buy new set of batteries or if there is
> something wrong with the charger.

If treated properly, your batteries should still be working nearly
as well as when new. The only difference being a slight reduction
in capacity. Anything is possible. The batteries could be good or
they (one or more of them, anyway) could be bad. The camera might
be the problem or, as you've noted, the charger could be bad. By
far the most likely thing causing your problem, though, would be the
batteries. Not having a Canon S1 IS I can't check it out, but it
may do what some other Canon cameras do (I've owned some of them) -
which is to very slowly drain batteries when the camera is not
powered on.

This can be fatal to batteries if they're left in a camera that is
not used for several months. My Canon manuals were careful to warn
that the batteries (in this case proprietary NiMH battery packs)
should be removed from the camera if they wouldn't be used for an
extended period, as the batteries would be run. Other, better
designed cameras drain the batteries so lightly when powered off
that they could remain in the camera for years without running the
batteries down. If the S1 IS is like my old Canon Powershots, and
over the last 2 years you occasionally packed the camera away for
several months at a time, one or more of the Energizer NiMH cells
may have been damaged. It only takes a single bad battery to make
all of the NiMH cells perform poorly.

You could buy an inexpensive battery tester, and as crude as these
are, it would be good enough to let you know of you have only one
bad cell, if more than one cell is damaged, or if they're all still
good. But given the odds that a new set of NiMH AA cells will be
the cure, and cost about the same as a battery tester, you'd
probably be better off simply getting a new set of batteries.
Alternatively, you could waste a dollar or two on a fresh set of
alkaline AA batteries (if you don't have any on hand) and see how
long they last. If there's nothing wrong with the S1 IS, they won't
last nearly as long as rechargeable NiMH cells would, but they
should be good for far more than 10 shots. Check your manual.
Canon is pretty good about providing accurate information about how
long alkaline and NiMH batteries last in their cameras.

On 16 Dec 2006 17:57:51 -0800, Paul Rubin
<http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

>> I am wondering if I should buy new set of batteries or if there is
>> something wrong with the charger.
>
> I think those batteries may have a high rate of early failure. I have
> a lot of bad ones myself. I suggest getting some new batteries. I
> suggest Sanyo Eneloops. These are being marketed as some kind of new
> technology that reduces self-discharge, but I think they're just
> existing technology applied more conservatively instead of trying to
> reach the limits of capacity. The result (in my theory) is lower
> capacity, slower self-discharge, and more reliability, similar to the
> old 1700 mah cells.

I haven't found Energizers to have high failure rates unless they
aren't treated well, and I've occasionally been guilty of that. I
also think that there's a bigger difference between Eneloops and
common NiMH cells, and that manufacturers aren't playing the silly
reformulation game that they've done for decades with alkalines.
It's not just Sanyo that has them. RayOVac calls them Hybrid
batteries instead of Eneloops, but both types use NiMH technology.
The Eneloop AAs are rated at 2000mah and the Hybrids at 2100mah.
Both are packaged fully charged, and the Eneloops include a date
code on the package that implies most of the charge will remain even
if the batteries remain on the shelf for a couple of years. They
pass your theory for lower capacity and slower self discharge by
definition. Whether they're more reliable or not I can't say, other
than to reiterate that I think that most people's problems with NiMH
reliability is not due to the brand, but to the way the NiMH cells
were used or unknowingly abused.

If they're rated similar to Uniross Hybrios (same technology), the Eneloops
are good for 5 years life.


"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:7x4prvb7xc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> skarkada@gmail.com writes:
>> Is it normal for these kinds of batteries after 2 years of normal use?
>> I read a rechargeable battery review on the Internet where they rated
>> Energizer 2300 mAh batteries on top.
>>
>> I am wondering if I should buy new set of batteries or if there is
>> something wrong with the charger.
>
> I think those batteries may have a high rate of early failure. I have
> a lot of bad ones myself. I suggest getting some new batteries. I
> suggest Sanyo Eneloops. These are being marketed as some kind of new
> technology that reduces self-discharge, but I think they're just
> existing technology applied more conservatively instead of trying to
> reach the limits of capacity. The result (in my theory) is lower
> capacity, slower self-discharge, and more reliability, similar to the
> old 1700 mah cells.
>

skarkada@gmail.com wrote:
> I have been using rechargeable Energizer 2300 mAh AA batteries for the
> past 2 years.
>
> Now, the batteries don't last much longer in my Canon S1 IS camera.
> Some times, I get low battery blinker soon after 10 pictures or so. I
> don't use the LCD much.
>
> Is it normal for these kinds of batteries after 2 years of normal use?
> I read a rechargeable battery review on the Internet where they rated
> Energizer 2300 mAh batteries on top.
>
> I am wondering if I should buy new set of batteries or if there is
> something wrong with the charger.
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
It is possible that the batteries are worn out. The batteries are rated
as to charge/discharge cycles, and with NIMH batteries, self-discharge
is also 'discharge', so they are always in this charge/discharge cycle.
This means that you may have recharged them more times than you think,
and they are good for 'up to' 500 cycles. My experience has been good
with most of the Energizer batteries, but some have crashed after only a
relatively few cycles.
A good smart charger, with a mode that will fully discharge them before
recharging once or twice a year might revive the batteries, but why
bother? Given the cost of NIMH batteries, just replace them with some
new, higher capacity, batteries, or even some of the Eneloop type that
don't have a self-discharge problem.

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:7_OdnQuw2olDjhjYnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@giganews.com ...
> skarkada@gmail.com wrote:
>> I have been using rechargeable Energizer 2300 mAh AA batteries for the
>> past 2 years.
>>
>> Now, the batteries don't last much longer in my Canon S1 IS camera.
>> Some times, I get low battery blinker soon after 10 pictures or so. I
>> don't use the LCD much.
>>
>> Is it normal for these kinds of batteries after 2 years of normal use?
>> I read a rechargeable battery review on the Internet where they rated
>> Energizer 2300 mAh batteries on top.
>>
>> I am wondering if I should buy new set of batteries or if there is
>> something wrong with the charger.
>>
>> Thanks for your time.
>>
> It is possible that the batteries are worn out. The batteries are rated
> as to charge/discharge cycles, and with NIMH batteries, self-discharge is
> also 'discharge', so they are always in this charge/discharge cycle. This
> means that you may have recharged them more times than you think, and they
> are good for 'up to' 500 cycles. My experience has been good with most of
> the Energizer batteries, but some have crashed after only a relatively few
> cycles.
> A good smart charger, with a mode that will fully discharge them before
> recharging once or twice a year might revive the batteries, but why
> bother? Given the cost of NIMH batteries, just replace them with some
> new, higher capacity, batteries, or even some of the Eneloop type that
> don't have a self-discharge problem.

Does the charger sold by Eveready discharge the batteries prior to
recharging them? I left a set in the charger for an extended period of time
and noticed one day that it was charging when they hadn't been removed. My
assumption was that the batteries had drained enough that the charger
detected a need to recharge them. If it does discharge first, you could be
adding a lot of recharge cycles without touching the batteries at all.
Rob

"Scubabix" <Scubabix@comcast.net> writes:
> Does the charger sold by Eveready discharge the batteries prior to
> recharging them?

Almost certainly not.

> I left a set in the charger for an extended period of time
> and noticed one day that it was charging when they hadn't been removed.

This is almost always bad for NiMH cells. If you did this, it
explains why your cells aren't working properly now.