Greenforce torch - advice on bulb

All,

quick query.. - just got my new torch - an FII with umbilical and pro
head.. the light head came with an Osram 35W Decostar 51 IRC bulb, which a)
are not readily available locally and b) about three times the price of low
voltage bulbs sold in B&Q.. So my question is: Can I use these B&Q bulbs -
or would there be a problem with heat either on the glass or behind the
bulb? I have already checked and they fit and work - its just the heat from
the bulb or other factors I am worried about..

Any advice, much appreciated

Cheers

Wilbo

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:13:17 +0100, "Mark Williams"
<wilbosb.nospam@hotmail.com> wrote:

>All,
>
>quick query.. - just got my new torch - an FII with umbilical and pro
>head.. the light head came with an Osram 35W Decostar 51 IRC bulb, which a)
>are not readily available locally and b) about three times the price of low
>voltage bulbs sold in B&Q.. So my question is: Can I use these B&Q bulbs -
>or would there be a problem with heat either on the glass or behind the
>bulb? I have already checked and they fit and work - its just the heat from
>the bulb or other factors I am worried about..
>
>Any advice, much appreciated
>
Decostar lamps should be available from most electrical wholesalers.
Sounds like you need a 35w capsule with a GY6.35 cap. 6.35mm being the
distance the pins are spaced apart.

But you can get a 50w version with the same cap. Drop straight in. The
ceramic holder for the lamps is the same in each case, but strangely,
burn time is less with the 50w lamp.

In terms of efficiency, the 35w produces 570 lm, and the 50w produces
830 lm. Nothing in it wrt lumen per watt.

Pete S.

> >
> >quick query.. - just got my new torch - an FII with umbilical and pro
> >head.. the light head came with an Osram 35W Decostar 51 IRC bulb, which
a)
> >are not readily available locally and b) about three times the price of
low
> >voltage bulbs sold in B&Q.. So my question is: Can I use these B&Q
bulbs -
> >or would there be a problem with heat either on the glass or behind the
> >bulb? I have already checked and they fit and work - its just the heat
from
> >the bulb or other factors I am worried about..

I have a GF Arrow 12 with the same head.

I have never managed to find a replacement bulb that I am 100% happy with.

The big problem I have had is getting a bulb with any "Penetration"

Often the ones sold in the high street are based on 36 degree reflectors. I
finally managed to get one with a 12 Degree reflector, but it didn't work
too well.

The 12V battery can't generate enough juice (I was told "insufiiciant amps"
by some spark) for the 50Watt bulb, and so it actually seems a crap when you
use it.

I have also used a 20Watt for fun which actually had a nice output, and very
long burn time.

A huge issue with this type of bulb is that all the replacments I have found
have ceramics in the bulb. The original had a putty instead. This was great
as it could take a knock or two. Basically the first time I knock the light
now, it cracks the ceramics. The torch still works, but the head gets lots
of "Sand" in it from the damaged ceramics, and it will rattle.

Then when it gets so bad as the "Sand" effects the lense. I swap out the
bulb again.

I am constantly looking in Hardware stores for the "Perfect Bulb" The head
made prior to this one, used standard 35 Watt bulbs and this one had a
wonderful long reaching beam.

If anyone, just anyone manages to find a bulb that, 1.) Doesn't break so
easily and 2.) has a nice tight beam, then please drop me a line. (Email
addy on the web link)

Essentially the torch gives a nice round beam, which is great for things a
few meters away, but has no penetration power, which I want. The origiginal
had a 24 degree bulb, and that was bad enough. 36 degrees is a joke.


--
mattD
______________________________________
En alternativ dykkeportal for alle interesserte:
http://www.diving-in-norway.com

Lazarus X wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:13:17 +0100, "Mark Williams"
> <wilbosb.nospam@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>All,
>>
>>quick query.. - just got my new torch - an FII with umbilical and pro
>>head.. the light head came with an Osram 35W Decostar 51 IRC bulb, which
>>a) are not readily available locally and b) about three times the price of
>>low voltage bulbs sold in B&Q.. So my question is: Can I use these B&Q
>>bulbs - or would there be a problem with heat either on the glass or
>>behind the bulb? I have already checked and they fit and work - its just
>>the heat from the bulb or other factors I am worried about..
>>
>>Any advice, much appreciated
>
> You need to check which bulb you have. They have standard halogen and
> xenon (which is called xenophot in GF land). The xenon bulb have a
> slightly hotter colour temperature so you do tend to get more
> penetration when comparing similar powered xenon and halogen bulbs.
> Therefore, if you can find a replacement xenon bulb you should get the
> same output that you get with your "official" GF bulb.
>
> The other thing to consider is the reflector angle. This has been
> covered elsewhere in this thread so I won't bother going over it
> again.
>
> Finally, if you go for a 50w, rather than a 35w, you may have to
> change the glass. All GF 50w head have borocillic (sp?) glass. When
> compared to "standard" glass, borocillic glass has a higher tolerance
> of heat.
>

Hmm, heat on glass, I can see this making sense if you are above the water,
however surely the great big heatsink that we dive in should deal with it
underwater. Or am I missing something?

Danny

--
The box said windows 98 or better, so I installed Linux

Header is false, correct is Danny at danshome dot org

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:00:56 +0100, Danny Burchett <me@privacy.net>
wrote:

>Lazarus X wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:13:17 +0100, "Mark Williams"
>> <wilbosb.nospam@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>All,
>>>
>>>quick query.. - just got my new torch - an FII with umbilical and pro
>>>head.. the light head came with an Osram 35W Decostar 51 IRC bulb, which
>>>a) are not readily available locally and b) about three times the price of
>>>low voltage bulbs sold in B&Q.. So my question is: Can I use these B&Q
>>>bulbs - or would there be a problem with heat either on the glass or
>>>behind the bulb? I have already checked and they fit and work - its just
>>>the heat from the bulb or other factors I am worried about..
>>>
>>>Any advice, much appreciated
>>
>> You need to check which bulb you have. They have standard halogen and
>> xenon (which is called xenophot in GF land). The xenon bulb have a
>> slightly hotter colour temperature so you do tend to get more
>> penetration when comparing similar powered xenon and halogen bulbs.
>> Therefore, if you can find a replacement xenon bulb you should get the
>> same output that you get with your "official" GF bulb.
>>
>> The other thing to consider is the reflector angle. This has been
>> covered elsewhere in this thread so I won't bother going over it
>> again.
>>
>> Finally, if you go for a 50w, rather than a 35w, you may have to
>> change the glass. All GF 50w head have borocillic (sp?) glass. When
>> compared to "standard" glass, borocillic glass has a higher tolerance
>> of heat.
>>
>
>Hmm, heat on glass, I can see this making sense if you are above the water,
>however surely the great big heatsink that we dive in should deal with it
>underwater. Or am I missing something?

I thought the same as you but Lumb were adamant that this is the case.
Maybe it's a case of it doesn't make much difference underwater but on
the surface it will take 30 minutes to melt as opposed to 10?

Trouble is, I use HID so I really don't any inclination to find out
for sure, especially since there is no such thing as a quick
conversation with Rob (sorry Rob but I speak the truth!).

Laz

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A foolproof method for sculpting an Elephant:
First, get a huge block of marble. Then, chip away
everything that doesn't look like an Elephant.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Change "nospam" to "ntlworld" to reply.

Danny Burchett wrote:
> Hmm, heat on glass, I can see this making sense if you are above the
> water, however surely the great big heatsink that we dive in should
> deal with it underwater. Or am I missing something?

Well at a guess since glass is a relativly poor conductor of
heat, well, compared to metals, it can be hot on the inside
and cold on the outside and with differential thermal expansions
it would get more than a bit stressed.

Borosilicates don't conduct any better but they don't expand
as much when heated so they cope with the problem better.

nigelH

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:47:02 +0200, "mattD" <zip@norway.no> wrote:

>I am constantly looking in Hardware stores for the "Perfect Bulb" The head
>made prior to this one, used standard 35 Watt bulbs and this one had a
>wonderful long reaching beam.
>
>If anyone, just anyone manages to find a bulb that, 1.) Doesn't break so
>easily and 2.) has a nice tight beam, then please drop me a line. (Email
>addy on the web link)
>
>Essentially the torch gives a nice round beam, which is great for things a
>few meters away, but has no penetration power, which I want. The origiginal
>had a 24 degree bulb, and that was bad enough. 36 degrees is a joke.

Matt, why don't you just go to a wholesaler and order a box of
dichroic lamps with the beam pattern and wattage you want?

IIRC, lamps can be bought with 10,23,24,26,36,38, and 60 degree
spreads. And that's just one manufacturer. All for under £2 each. I
did hear of one manufacturer that produced 4 degree lamps for shop
displays.

Beam spread is usually quoted as being where intensity has fallen to
50% of the centre intensity.

Filament positions and orientations make a big difference.

Under running (voltage to low) halogen lamps shortens the life of the
lamp.

So does overvoltage.

And turning it on and off too often.

And so does dropping it.

And then there are capsule lamps......

Pete S.

<Pete S.> wrote in message
news:vhaipvcanqfbjusfeph3rioigqk71ihks5@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:47:02 +0200, "mattD" <zip@norway.no> wrote:
>
> >I am constantly looking in Hardware stores for the "Perfect Bulb" The
head
> >made prior to this one, used standard 35 Watt bulbs and this one had a
> >wonderful long reaching beam.
> >
> >If anyone, just anyone manages to find a bulb that, 1.) Doesn't break so
> >easily and 2.) has a nice tight beam, then please drop me a line. (Email
> >addy on the web link)
> >
> >Essentially the torch gives a nice round beam, which is great for things
a
> >few meters away, but has no penetration power, which I want. The
origiginal
> >had a 24 degree bulb, and that was bad enough. 36 degrees is a joke.
>
> Matt, why don't you just go to a wholesaler and order a box of
> dichroic lamps with the beam pattern and wattage you want?
>
> IIRC, lamps can be bought with 10,23,24,26,36,38, and 60 degree
> spreads. And that's just one manufacturer. All for under £2 each. I
> did hear of one manufacturer that produced 4 degree lamps for shop
> displays.
>
> Beam spread is usually quoted as being where intensity has fallen to
> 50% of the centre intensity.
>
> Filament positions and orientations make a big difference.
>
> Under running (voltage to low) halogen lamps shortens the life of the
> lamp.
>
> So does overvoltage.
>
> And turning it on and off too often.
>
> And so does dropping it.
>
> And then there are capsule lamps......
>
> Pete S.

And these are the "Fully sealed" all in one lamps? (Not the old Greenforce
torch, which used normal bulbs)

They cost 15 quid each over here!

Matt

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:30:16 +0100, "mattD" <zip@norway.no> wrote:

>
>And these are the "Fully sealed" all in one lamps? (Not the old Greenforce
>torch, which used normal bulbs)

Bulbs is wot you put in the garden.

>
>They cost 15 quid each over here!
>

Matt

Are you talking about "closed front" dichroics? 12v, 50W or 12v 35W?
Bi pin connection?

Well I NEVER get them from B&Q/homebase/Doitall etc they are tooooo
expensive.

Go to an electrical wholesaler.......

Or confirm the spec to me and I'll get you some.

E-Mail me a JPEG of one of the lamps. Lo res will be fine.

mattATderwentelecDOTclaraDOTcoDOTuk

Pete S.

"mattD" <zip@norway.no> wrote in message
news:YN4mb.1136$mf2.14439@news4.e.nsc.no...
>
> > >
> > >quick query.. - just got my new torch - an FII with umbilical and pro
> > >head.. the light head came with an Osram 35W Decostar 51 IRC bulb,
which
> a)
> > >are not readily available locally and b) about three times the price of
> low
> > >voltage bulbs sold in B&Q.. So my question is: Can I use these B&Q
> bulbs -
> > >or would there be a problem with heat either on the glass or behind the
> > >bulb? I have already checked and they fit and work - its just the heat
> from
> > >the bulb or other factors I am worried about..
>
> I have a GF Arrow 12 with the same head.
>
> I have never managed to find a replacement bulb that I am 100% happy with.
>
> The big problem I have had is getting a bulb with any "Penetration"
>
> Often the ones sold in the high street are based on 36 degree reflectors.
I
> finally managed to get one with a 12 Degree reflector, but it didn't work
> too well.
>
> The 12V battery can't generate enough juice (I was told "insufiiciant
amps"
> by some spark) for the 50Watt bulb, and so it actually seems a crap when
you
> use it.
>
> I have also used a 20Watt for fun which actually had a nice output, and
very
> long burn time.
>
> A huge issue with this type of bulb is that all the replacments I have
found
> have ceramics in the bulb. The original had a putty instead. This was
great
> as it could take a knock or two. Basically the first time I knock the
light
> now, it cracks the ceramics. The torch still works, but the head gets
lots
> of "Sand" in it from the damaged ceramics, and it will rattle.
>
> Then when it gets so bad as the "Sand" effects the lense. I swap out the
> bulb again.
>
> I am constantly looking in Hardware stores for the "Perfect Bulb" The
head
> made prior to this one, used standard 35 Watt bulbs and this one had a
> wonderful long reaching beam.
>
> If anyone, just anyone manages to find a bulb that, 1.) Doesn't break so
> easily and 2.) has a nice tight beam, then please drop me a line. (Email
> addy on the web link)
>
> Essentially the torch gives a nice round beam, which is great for things a
> few meters away, but has no penetration power, which I want. The
origiginal
> had a 24 degree bulb, and that was bad enough. 36 degrees is a joke.
>
>
> --
> mattD
> ______________________________________
> En alternativ dykkeportal for alle interesserte:
> http://www.diving-in-norway.com
>

Chaps,

Thanks for the advice.. I'll start shopping around then!

Cheers

Mark.