Reduntant air supply? on stoney dive!

"TerryH" <terry@maxgsd.freeserve.co.uk> wrote ...

> I know it's not the main thread, but i've always questioned
> this argument to support side slung.

One argument for is in-water trim. I've always found a pony unbalancing,
it's too high and will always pull you to one side or the other. Stage
mounting it does still make you slightly unbalanced but where the weight is
means that the turning moment is much less. The ease of handing off a rigged
pony/stage has also been covered.

Having tried both I can't really see a reason FOR mounting it in the
traditional way next to the single main. Of course a twin-set scored on all
counts

Keith L

> I know it's not the main thread, but i've always questioned this argument
> to support side slung.
> If you have it mounted on a rack then it's easy to "pull the pin".
> Similarly if you have it on say AP pony bands again it's very easy to pull
> the straps and release the pony (albeit by the person using it).
>
> Might be easier with side-slung (for the donor), but you can hand off
> with any rig.

I think the main part of handing-off is the "handing" part. It's that part
that gives you control. I don't want to give this control to my buddy. You
can control the gas, by hand, if needed. You can control the first-stage
(by replacing it) if needed. You can control the position on the gas
(on/off/other side) if needed. You can give it way if needed. you can
ditch it if needed. You can retrieve it if needed.

I'm not sure that you can achieve this control with a back-mount system.

To utilise this control a side slung requires practice and skill. I think
skills are best to add one at a time, so until your totally comfortable with
the more mundane skills of, for example, buoyancy control and DSMB
deployment then a backmount system is the way to go. Back mount is easy to
use, has no underwater configuration requirements, and can be deployed for
use to either a diver. It can be side slung later for very little
additional cost.

Cheers
Matt.

"Jon Lawrence" <jon@GoAwaylawrence.org.uk> wrote in message
news:lb7581-lmr.ln1@hals.lawrence.org.uk...
>
> I've only recently got my OW. It would seem like a pretty good idea to me
to
> always carry a pony.

Good man. Nice to see someone thinking outside the PADI box...

> My instructor said PADI don't teach it, but how do you know that you'll
> always be able to get to your buddy.

PADI don't teach it?! What complete bull - PADI might not cover the
technicalities of rigging and/or mounting a pony and how to switch to one in
an emergency but they certainly get mentioned as a valuable alternate air
source even in the OW manual!

> As I see it, pony's aren't exactly expensive but it's your life not mine.
If
> you feel you'll always be able to trust your buddy then don't carry one.

Exactly. And let's face it, you won't get a second chance when you finally
discover that your faith in dive buddies was perhaps ill-placed!

John <john@telenetel.co.uk> wrote:
> For a basic dive in stoney (say 22m no deco) is there a valid reason why a
> pony should be used, or does the buddy provide suffiencent capability
> (assuming you dont lose him!)

It depends on how cold the water is, how deep you are planning to go and
how good the vis is

I always dive with redundant gas so I would say yes; it doesn't hurt to
be a bit prepared!

Nick

"Ben Panter" <See@the_end.not> wrote in message
news:3FB0C3FE.5020501@the_end.not...

> I think that handing off is proably about as easy - but the real
> question has to be what the recepient does with the bottle. If it is
> "stage rigged" they can clip it on to themselves straight away and then
> have both hands free for the ascent. If it is just a bare pony they have
> to use a hand to hold on to it - and if it slips from their grip we're
> back to square one.
>
> Ben
>

Back to steel v aluminium if the pony cylinder was steel so part of your
overall weighting system would taking it off be such a good idea?

MarkW
nospam to scuba to reply

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:55:03 +0000 (UTC), "Nigel Hewitt"
<nigelh@REMOVETHISnigelhewitt.net> wrote:

<Snip>

>OC is the last resort when you have lost the loop and all the scare stories
>for that involve a brain fade on setting up. Even the guy who slashed his
>hoses on a wreck discovered that it gurgled a lot but still worked.

I would love to know the story behind the person on Mad Moles site who
attributed the cause of his/her total loop flood as "buddy cut hose".


Laz

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A foolproof method for sculpting an Elephant:
First, get a huge block of marble. Then, chip away
everything that doesn't look like an Elephant.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Change "nospam" to "ntlworld" to reply.

Mark Williams <mark.nospam.williams@ntlworld.com> writes:

>Back to steel v aluminium if the pony cylinder was steel so part of your
>overall weighting system would taking it off be such a good idea?

If it was, no. That's the main reason why it is a bad idea to have
stages as part of your overall weighting system. You want to be
neutral with just empty backgas cylinders.

Any stages are going to add negative buoyancy, which is why it is
better to find a stage cylinder that isn't going to be massively negative .

For a 3l pony, the difference between steel and ally isn't really
significant. For 7l, the older specification of Aluminium 7s are
ideal. I hear that the newer luxfer 7s are much more negative, which
is a great pity. That only leaves Al 80s which are a bit big and a
bit difficult to get hold of.

Pete

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Pete Young pete@antipope.org Remove dot. to reply
"Just another crouton, floating on the bouillabaisse of life"

> to use a hand to hold on to it - and if it slips from their grip we're
> back to square one.

.... and they'd owe me a pony! :o)

David

TerryH wrote:
>> - side sling it and you
>> can even hand it off in the event that your buddy gets into serious
>> sh*t.
>>
>
> I know it's not the main thread, but i've always questioned this
> argument to support side slung.

Oh grief I'm going to agree with Terry...
...what is the world coming to?

If my buddy is in so much poo that he needs exclusive use
of my pony/stage it quite suits me to have him tied to me
by things he wants to keep hold of. If he's diving a full
deepwater rig he's clearly had a catastrophic failure and
if he is diving a simple single with no back up on a dive
that required it I will stop insisting that we do it my
way when we are back on the boat - if I have the gas I
win every argument.

nigelH

"Mark Williams" <mark.nospam.williams@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:boqeqa$1guvcu$1@ID-169335.news.uni-berlin.de

> Well original I thought the same will only be diving to a max of 35-40M so
> the plan was to just stick a reg on the diluent cylinder for bail out but
> have there been any cases of first stages going pop in which case the reg
> would be useless.

First stages do fail, but on CCR, your dil stage is only used for
bulking up your airspaces (suit, wing, CL), so a failed dil first stage
only means that you can't go any deeper - it doesn't stop the unit from
working.

A failed dil first stage on top of a TLF on top of a lost buddy at depth
might be fatal - but that's no different from any other sort of diving.

HTH

Vic.


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