Force Fins forces Rodale's Scuba Diving to pay for scuba equipment ratings scam

"Dan Volker" <dvolker@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<TE3tb.8730$Mm.3749@bignews6.bellsouth.net>.. .

> Right...my con game....my biggest contribution to that issue was shooting a
> film of the Lake Worth pier, with its hundreds of fisherman, and the huge
> number of struggling fish on the end of fishing lines--right next to where
> children are swimming. I had an especially nice shot of the fillet stations
> along the pier, where the fisherman would cut up their fish, and blood and
> fish parts would be instantly hosed right into the water less than 15 feet
> away from a group of 7 and 8 year old children. This "chumming" was almost
> non-stop. I then had interviews with the fisherman, about how they hooked
> all types of sharks here regularly....and an interview with a lifeguard
> saying he really thought fishing by the swimming area made his job of
> protecting the swimmers much more difficult than it should be.

A no swim buffer (+- 100') on both sides of the pier, and a ban on
shark fishing from the pier. It is beyond absurd to allow folks to
swim in close proximity to the pier. Good grief, a strong current
paralleling the beach could sweep a poor swimmer into the barnacle
encrusted pilings.

Why this simple change has not already occured is disturbing. I guess
Palm Beach County is just going to wait to get hit with a big lawsuit.
Given LWP's "zoo-like" reputation I guess nothing that is allowed to
go on there should surprise me, or anyone else, anymore.

> I was against a "real" threat to beach going swimmers,

Good, see below:

http://www.surfline.com/travel/surfm...r_knowlton.cfm

You're tough enough to deal with some of the "cowboys" that hang out
there . I've heard LWP has somewhat cleaned up it's "wild west"
image and it's been a few years since my last trip, so maybe it's no
longer as bad as I remember it.

> while CDNN supported
> fishing, ignored the pier issue, and then CDNN fought to take divers out of
> the "save the shark" mentality guys like Abernethy were creating, as it was
> hurting sportfisherman and shark fisherman.

Deal with it, you put up a good fight but the game is now over. You
can no longer feed sharks for $$$. Just like you can't feed manatees,
sea turtles, alligators, bears, panthers, eagles, ect, ect, ect.
--
SJM

"Schmoe" <jschmoeleg@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:Mh6tb.10268$fA2.2433661@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...
> "Robert "Doc" Adelman, C.I.D." <lawyers-guns-money@att.net> wrote in
message
> news:P2Wsb.252046$0v4.17271711@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> <snip>
>
> > Gack!
>
> Eat something bad?
>
> > Undercurrent has long ago been exposed for a profit making and
> advertisement
> > selling operation that it is.
> >
> > Check out rec.scuba archives.
> >
> > UC actively solicited ads for their internet version, placing the money
> for
> > those ads in "Ben's" left pocket. Of course, when the holy virgin
printed
> > version was mailed out, stamps were never bought with THAT money. "Ben"
> used
> > the money from his OTHER left pocket.
> >
> > No, UC is for sale as well. Ben finaly gurgled out a Clintonesque waffle
a
> > number of monrths after the fact.
> >
> > Sorry I had to repeat myself, there's always somebody new who believes
> Ben's
> > fairy tales.
> >
> > There is no truth for sale. The truth is free.
>
> The only truth I expect from UC is the reviews written by individual
> subscribers as opposed to paid staffers. I've never read or used UC for
> anything else. For that, it's worth it.
>
> Why do many people continue to cross-post this thread? There's always
> someone new who cross posts. <g>
>
>
Get over it!

Dave.

Slow Death left this mess on Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:27:40 GMT for The Way to clean
up:
>
>On 14 Nov 2003 06:34:52 -0800, de Valois <devalois@nailedandused.com>
>wrote:
>
>>You distorted the intent of my post. I said that Rodale's takes its advertising
>>revenue, and pays salaries to reporters to go out and get news stories, where
>>Scuba Booby parrots things he finds on other websites.
>>
>>And we have no way of knowing whether what Booby reports is accurate and factual
>>or not. In many ways, CDNN sounds like some gossip mill that repeats a story
>>just for the sensational effect, like the National Enquirer or the Star. They
>>don't have to be held to a higher standard, they feel, because they're not
>>responsible for the original story. But damned if they haven't been caught out
>>passing on lies from time to time.
>>
>
>You don't know what you're talking about and misrepresenting the
>people who work at Cyber Diver as "Scuba Booby" is equivalent to
>Rodale's lying about Force Fins. You industry whores need to get your
>act together. Want CDNN original material? I'd be happy to provide
>it to you but obviously that's not what you're really looking for.
>You're attempting to justify Rodale's "pay me I'm yours" bullshit.
>Like I said before, go back to the Rodale's industry controlled
>message board and do your industry whore cheer-leading there. After
>all, that's where you get your paycheck, isn't it bitch?

LOL!

Um, no. I'm a diver. I have no vested interest in this other than getting tired
of Scuba Booby posting his lies.

Tao te Carl
"It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

(Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-ass question
here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif

"de Valois" <devalois@nailedandused.com> wrote in message
news:bp3bkm0ial@drn.newsguy.com...
> Dan Volker left this mess on Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:32:42 -0500 for The Way
to
> clean up:
> >
> >
> >
> >One more reason I put little faith in the Dive shops and MFG's for fair
gear
> >reviews----since there are virtually no "Demos" going on out there, its
very
> >hard for the dive consumer to find out when they are fed BS. In snow
skiing,
> >if a boot manufacturer made an amazing claim, skiers would demo the
product
> >right away, and the backlash from deceitful reviews would be nasty...
> >
>
> But, Dan, really...what "amazing claims" have you read lately from a mfr.
> besides Spare Air?


>
Thanks for this opportunity

Split fins come to mind.....Worse still, do you remember Bondage Wings
How about head mounted dive lights--they look great in an ad, but if you are
on a night dive with them, and try to get eye contact with your buddy--as
you SHOULD, you blind him

When people get to experience deviant gear, it keeps the mfg's alot more
honest


Regards,
Dan

Dan Volker left this mess on Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:15:49 -0500 for The Way to
clean up:
>
>
>"de Valois" <devalois@nailedandused.com> wrote in message
>news:bp3bkm0ial@drn.newsguy.com...
>> Dan Volker left this mess on Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:32:42 -0500 for The Way
>to
>> clean up:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >One more reason I put little faith in the Dive shops and MFG's for fair
>gear
>> >reviews----since there are virtually no "Demos" going on out there, its
>very
>> >hard for the dive consumer to find out when they are fed BS. In snow
>skiing,
>> >if a boot manufacturer made an amazing claim, skiers would demo the
>product
>> >right away, and the backlash from deceitful reviews would be nasty...
>> >
>>
>> But, Dan, really...what "amazing claims" have you read lately from a mfr.
>> besides Spare Air?
>
>
>>
>Thanks for this opportunity
>
>Split fins come to mind.....Worse still, do you remember Bondage Wings
>How about head mounted dive lights--they look great in an ad, but if you are
>on a night dive with them, and try to get eye contact with your buddy--as
>you SHOULD, you blind him
>
>When people get to experience deviant gear, it keeps the mfg's alot more
>honest
>

Fair enough. I can give you those for points.

How many of those did Rodale's give a thumbs up to, tho? :)

Spare Air, yea. <chuckle>

Tao te Carl
"It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

(Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-ass question
here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif

On 14 Nov 2003 11:54:50 -0800, de Valois <devalois@nailedandused.com>
wrote:

>Slow Death left this mess on Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:27:40 GMT for The Way to clean
>up:
>>
>>On 14 Nov 2003 06:34:52 -0800, de Valois <devalois@nailedandused.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>You distorted the intent of my post. I said that Rodale's takes its advertising
>>>revenue, and pays salaries to reporters to go out and get news stories, where
>>>Scuba Booby parrots things he finds on other websites.
>>>
>>>And we have no way of knowing whether what Booby reports is accurate and factual
>>>or not. In many ways, CDNN sounds like some gossip mill that repeats a story
>>>just for the sensational effect, like the National Enquirer or the Star. They
>>>don't have to be held to a higher standard, they feel, because they're not
>>>responsible for the original story. But damned if they haven't been caught out
>>>passing on lies from time to time.
>>>
>>
>>You don't know what you're talking about and misrepresenting the
>>people who work at Cyber Diver as "Scuba Booby" is equivalent to
>>Rodale's lying about Force Fins. You industry whores need to get your
>>act together. Want CDNN original material? I'd be happy to provide
>>it to you but obviously that's not what you're really looking for.
>>You're attempting to justify Rodale's "pay me I'm yours" bullshit.
>>Like I said before, go back to the Rodale's industry controlled
>>message board and do your industry whore cheer-leading there. After
>>all, that's where you get your paycheck, isn't it bitch?
>
>LOL!
>
>Um, no. I'm a diver. I have no vested interest in this other than getting tired
>of Scuba Booby posting his lies.
>

I think it's a fairly safe bet your fatigue will continue albeit
punctuated by frequent erections for Scuba Bobby. Again. Go back to
Rodale's - "the only game in town" (LOL) - and bore the Rodalettes to
death ("Hey Suzy, me 'n Dick bought split fins for our trip to Coz!")
with your dull and insipid "I love Cyber Diver" rant. I have no
interest in your sexual proclivities nor specifically why you are in
bed with Rodales . Bon voyage bitch!

Dan,

Phew! How do you get those measurements at depth? And I said that I found
free diving fins elegant.

When this whole mess landed me in the hospital, I maintained an oxygen
absorption level of 98%. That means my cardiovascular system is in very good
shape. My personal preference is the Original Force Fin. I don't recommend
them for every customer who calls. Like you, Bob as of late is preferring
his Excellerating Force Fins.

I find the customers who are happiest scuba diving with the Original Force
Fin are either those in poor shape as you choose to pigeonhole, or those of
an elite level -- the two extremes. We make plenty of Force Fin variations
for those in between.

With respect to elite divers and swimmers, we find that they use cues other
than the resistence or drag of their fins -- your fitness workload, Dan --
as their measurement of forward momentum. An elite swimmer is going to feel
more comfortable with a swimmers kick. They can measure their forward
momentum or the thrust output of their fin blade by how they're moving, not
by how they are working.

I personally believe that kicking your fin should be easy. When scuba diving
there are too many other things to enjoy and consider than how to kick your
fins. A low amplitude, wide stride kick is an adaptation of your kick for
your fins, just as a frog kick is an adaptation for optimizing Jet Fins.
Sure you can be very efficient once adapted, but why suggest that everyone
go through the process?

Love ya,

Susanne Chess
Force Fin





"Dan Volker" <dvolker@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:%%8tb.7966$rV.5284@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Force Fin" <info@forcefin.com> wrote in message
> news:Xj8tb.406$sb4.157@newsread2.news.pas.earthlin k.net...
> > You know Dan, the reason you like free diving fins isn't just their
> surface
> > area. Its the same reason I like Original Force Fins when diving in a
> > current.
> >
> > When someone kicks a pair of free diving fins, the angle of the blade
> > relevant to the direction of travel stays oriented to best take
advantage
> of
> > the water flow. Their simply too long to pull perpendicular to the
> direction
> > of travel. The design of the Force Fin blade, as well as the design of
the
> > other fins in our portfolio that you do like keep properly oriented to
> your
> > direction of travel too.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Susanne Chess
> > Force Fin
> >
>
> Susanne,
> After trying your more advanced Force Fins, I have come to the realization
> that they represent an entirely different way to push yourself through the
> water. For many people, this may be a better way than with traditional
fins.
> For the subset of the population which is highly fit, and who can quickly
> feel comfortable with the large amplitude, slow frequency kick style you
use
> with freediving fins, I still believe this is the best way to go---and a
way
> Force fin can evolve into, with its own freediving fin, as Bob has
> demonstrated with prototypes.
> For people who do not find it natural to use a large amplitude, slow
> frequency kicks, and prefer instead a more rapid, low amplitude flutter,
the
> Force fin offerings, in their advanced fins, are outstanding.
>
> I still hate the idea of the original Force fin, because it caters to a
> person with such low muscle power and low fitness---by way of its
> requirement for very rapid turnover and very little thrust result--but
with
> almost no torque required----this is a fin ideal for a 400 pound person,
who
> might be better off watching TV and eating Pizza and ice cream with Coca
> cola. Maybe I am exagerating too much here, but I still see this as a
crutch
> for someone who should become more fit, rather than re-shape the world
into
> their own conception of lazyness. Your other models begin to raise the
> fitness bar with their capabilities, allowing normal divers to match their
> fitness with a model ideal for them by Force fin. No one else in the Fin
> world, other than a few tiny freedive fin companies the average consumer
> will never hear of or find, have been smart enough to do that, and for
> this, I commend you guys.
>
> As to the perpendicular to current issue....... it sounds good, but the
> "high end" freedive fin "alternative" benefit, is that you can go
through
> the dive making one big push, followed by a huge long glide, then one more
> big push, then one more long glide----a streamlined diver can have awesome
> air consumption from this type of mechanics, since it allows a very low
> heart rate at an averaged speed normal to most divers---this the result of
> much gliding. I could keep my heart rate in the low 60's, with most divers
> at their comfortable pace, using a fin like the Omer C4. And there are
some
> divers I could dive with where I could stay in the high 50's. My resting
> pulse is 48 to 50bpm, and my max heart rate is 204, aerobic zone is 157 to
> 188, just to put this low heart rate at diving pace in perspective. The
low
> heart rate from very low kick turnover, translates into very slow
breathing
> and very low air consumption. If I use trashed fins, like my old pair of
> Omer Tuna Comps, the efficiency is so low that they are not terribly
> competitive in this example. Their is a requirement that the fin retains
its
> optimal flex charicteristics, and can "return" power optimally after each
> kick.
> This is the basic concept freedivers enjoy to perform breath hold
dives--the
> kick and glide, utilizing a very low heart rate ( which allows long
periods
> between breaths if required by a freediver--for the scuba diver, it just
> allows a much smaller demand for air).
>
> I am still anxious to try the Force Fin freediving fin---whenever they
> finally become available !!!!
>
> Regards,
> Dan Volker
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Dan Volker" <dvolker@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:CxPsb.465$oo.57@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> > >
> > > "boatlover" <boatlover1971@yahoo.com.hk> wrote in message
> > > news:bp0edv$r9$1@news.hgc.com.hk...
> > > > Hi Dan,
> > > >
> > > > How are you?( I am Casey, the guy who ask about split
> fins
> > &
> > > > strong current : )
> > > > I have bought a Cressi Gara 3000 but I couldn't find a
> pair
> > > of
> > > > free diving fins for my girl friend because her feet are too small
> > without
> > > > size. Anyway, have you try one of those force fin, are they good
> enough
> > to
> > > > swim against current? Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Casey
> > > > 13 Nov. 2003
> > >
> > > Hi Casey,
> > > Good choice on the fins for you. How are you liking them ?
> > >
> > > Your girlfriend may be able to use a larger bootie, available from
> > freedive
> > > catalogs or custom wetsuit makers like "Aquatic Wetsuits". The
freedive
> > fin
> > > neoprene socks are available up to 5mm and even 6 mm, which means a
size
> 6
> > > women's foot may fit nicely into a size 40 (European) freedive fin.
> > > My girlfriend Sandra has size 7 feet, and uses one or 2 pairs of white
> > > athletic socks--and a 2 mm neoprene sock ( the kind diveshops usually
> > sell).
> > > This has her very happy with her size 40 ( American size 8 men's)
> Picasso
> > > Black Team freedive fins.
> > >
> > > The athletic socks can work pretty well, if you can get past the look
>
> > >
> > >
> > > Force Fins.....I have tried them extensively. I would say much better
> than
> > > Twinjets or other split fins, but not as good as "real" freedive fins.
> > > The way I see Force fins, is that Bob Evans has created many different
> > > models of fins, and each one is best used by a person with a given
level
> > of
> > > fitness--or lack of fitness. This was a very smart thing for Bob to
do,
> > > since divers come in MANY different fitness levels...... The original
> > Force
> > > Fin is best for the diver who has a heart condition, is morbidly
obese,
> > and
> > > is in general, at a very low level of fitness. There are MANY divers
> like
> > > this, even many instructors. But Force fin has many other models that
> > allow
> > > "more water" to be pushed with each kick ( and with progressively
better
> > > levels of fitness, this is highly desirable) , and as you go to their
> more
> > > advanced models, they do have some fins that can allow even a diver
with
> > > "elite level fitness", to feel he or she is not at a disadvantage (
> which
> > > is how this same diver would feel with twin jets or Apollos on, in a
> > cross
> > > current in Boynton).
> > >
> > > I still like freedive fins best, but some of the Force Fins are much
> > better
> > > than most other fins on the market. Fit will not be a problem with
them,
> > and
> > > they are very easy to use. You will need to get her the most advanced
> > > model--the ones with the biggest fin surface. They have a new model
now
> > > which is very much like a freedive fin--you might try this one.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Dan V
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

In article <426b5651c6155458617e5dcf4f382d2b@news.teranews.co m>,
Slow Death <123@bioforus.uv> wrote:

> I think it's a fairly safe bet your fatigue will continue albeit
> punctuated by frequent erections for Scuba Bobby. Again. Go back to
> Rodale's - "the only game in town" (LOL) - and bore the Rodalettes to
> death ("Hey Suzy, me 'n Dick bought split fins for our trip to Coz!")
> with your dull and insipid "I love Cyber Diver" rant. I have no
> interest in your sexual proclivities nor specifically why you are in
> bed with Rodales . Bon voyage bitch!

What a CDNN spammer jerk.

The rules of spam sure do prove themselves over and over again:

Rule #0: Spam is theft.

Rule #1: All spammers lie.

Rule #2: If a spammer seems to be telling the truth,
see Rule #1.

Rule #3: Spammers are stupid.

PLONK

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:19:58 -0500, "Dan Volker"
<dvolker@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>
>"Slow Death" <123@bioforus.uv> wrote in message
>news:9a145716fe2a3d559927e54dc66648e9@news.terane ws.com...
>> On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:17:13 GMT, "Lee Bell"
>> <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>> >There were a lot of people,
>> >with a lot of money at stake, claiming that feeding sharks did not change
>> >their behavior and would not cause them to associate people with food.
>At
>> >best, they were wrong. At worst, they were intentionally lying.
>> >
>> >Lee
>> >
>>
>> Worse than "worst", the shark feeders ran all over Florida smearing
>> the pro-ban coalition as "stooges" and "lunatics" and "fishing
>> industry special interests". That "discredit your opponents" strategy
>> backfired because anybody could understand it simply wasn't true. The
>> fact that Dan is still attempting to foment that anti-CDNN crap speaks
>> volumes about why the feeders lost and why they will fail to reverse
>> the ban no matter how much money PADI/DEMA pumps into the "let's feed
>> sharks to save sharks" bullshit.
>
>blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.....Just keep spitting out the same misdirected
>information.
>How about actually DOING something, and take up arms against the chumming at
>fishing piers---shore fishing and pier fishing is a huge threat to nearby
>swimmers --why don't you and CDNN care about this enough to give it some
>news coverage--at least comprable to what you did with the dive based shark
>feeds...If you actually went after the shore and Pier fishing, I'd have to
>take your side on an issue--and that would be "horrible" for me
>
>
>Dan V
>
>

"your side of the issue" blah blah.

Actually I was in the middle and considered it a non-issue. Then the
shark feeding wars in Florida started, I followed the debate and in
the end, concluded that you and and the feeders were dead wrong. My
conclusion was based primarily on the gist of the pro-ban argument and
the fact that you and Holt and the feeders failed to put forth a
credible rebuttal. Instead, you resorted to lies, hysterical
complaints ("why single out dive ops blah, blah"), paranoia ("the
government is taking our rights away, SCREAM, SCREAM") and a campaign
of dirty tricks. For me personally, the email that broke the feeders'
back was a letter I read that contained an exchange between Slate,
John Stewart (DEMA hustler masquerading as a "save the sharks"
environmentalist#%!), Holt, you and a few others outlining a strategy
of discrediting your opponents (CDNN, MSG, Humane Society, Reef
Relief, etc) rather than doing the hard work to prove that feeding
does not alter the behavior of marine wildlife. It would appear that
strategy - a failed one from its inception - continues to this day and
that accomplishes nothing more than to underscore why (as CDNN stated)
you became your own worst enemy. No matter how often you snivel about
sewage in your front yard%#! (now there's an issue worth getting
worked up about) or chumming from piers (no one believes you and the
feeders actually care enough about sport fisher chumming to do
something about it), the ban on shark feeding will remain. You lost.
It's over. You and the feeders have no credibility. NONE.

"Slow Death" <123@bioforus.uv> wrote in message
news:31310efbcd79bd2d04f90f00ca4ced4a@news.teranew s.com...

So, lets answer the real tough question, shall we;

Who are you, really, and why do you care?

You can bash Dan all you want, and call into question his credibility all
you want to.

You post anonymously, which basically makes you and anything you post a
zero, no, less than a zero.

However, you seem to back up one source of information, actually a
commercial enterprise, so your position is doubly in doubt.

Get real, or go away.

Scott