PADI Adventure Diver? Adventure Dives

"Sean Houlihane" <tshoulihane@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f5d3bb73.0311251019.4965fee2@posting.google.c om...
> "CAS" <calumscottTAKETHISBITOUT@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> > So not just 5 dives - you've gone deeper than your previous 18m "limit"
with
> > instruction, you've proved that you can perform basic navigation tasks
> > (rather than just following a compass out and back), that you have
> > experience of diving in a drysuit (including righting techniques when
your
> > feet fill with air!), that you have experienced a night dive and that
you
> > have visited a wreck and not done anything stupid while you were
there...
> >
> Didn't quite break my previous 'deepest' dive, already done some
> 'real' compass work, already lost a buddy in UK vis, and dived with a
> drysuit before - so I've not really gained any new experiences, just
> more time in the water... I'll grant that numpties will have done new
> things, but I'm not sure that they learnt much, other than that they
> are now safe to dive to 30m...

OK, so the "deep" and navigation are mandatory - had you gone to a better
school they would have been more accomodating and been able to offer you a
range of elective adventure dives which might have held more interest for
you, like DPVs, videography or whatever.

The numpties, through plenty of fault of their own and plenty of the
instructors, are NOT now safe to dive to 30m. Unfortunately, being
numpties, they probably don't realise this. As an AOW, I feel comfortable
diving to 30m, the diving aspect is no different from 18m except that it
takes longer to get down and longer to get back. What I am very
uncomfortable with is the fact that I would be pretty shafted if things got
more than a little technical... hence the link in the sig...

> > So the numpties on your course put in zero effort prior to the course
> > conducted by a crap instructor...
> >
> > ...tell me what outcome you would be expecting in this circumstance (and
> > we'll leave out "dead divers"...)
> >
>
> Yes, I did save £50 by picking the cheaper of my local schools, and
> maybe I learnt stuff I didn't notice (like a little about diving with
> and guiding numpties), but I was concerned that there seemed to be
> very little effort made to impress on the numpties that the sort of
> diving that they were moving towards was getting quite serious.

And that is the fault of

a) the instructor for not going over it in the theory sessions and
b) the students for not reading the damn book - its all in there!

> No
> review of the use of tables, for example.

That, I believe is a prerequisite of the course and is the responsibility of
the student to make sure they are up to scratch BEFORE taking AOW.

> They seemed intent on
> progressing towards diving UK wrecks, after doing a wreck course.

Doing a wreck course when you want to dive on wrecks is, I'm sure you'll
agree, a bloody good idea and especially seeing as these divers are new and
inexperienced.

> I
> assume they'll stay with the same school, maybe get a better
> instructor, maybe not - but I can't help feeling they'd do much better
> in a club environment where there isn't so much pressure on reaching
> fairly arbitary targets...
>
> Sean

Hmmm... maybe they will, maybe they won't. What is not the case is that
they would do any better in a club environment. From what I've gathered
from various sources and my time in non-diving related clubs I would suggest
that if these people lack the motivation to even read the book with the
theory of the skills that will keep them swimming then they will lack the
motivation to put the effort into a club that is required to get the output
and results from that club. They are the people who turn up for two months
then vanish...

CAS
--
PADI AOW? Get Rescue Training on UKRS Course #1 -
http://divesite.calumscott.me.uk/ukrs/rescue_diver_2004
Temperature @ Stoney? Find it or share it @
http://stoneytemps.calumscott.me.uk/

"CAS" <calumscottTAKETHISBITOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bq1tot$1sa4cl$1@ID-

> The numpties, through plenty of fault of their own and plenty of the
> instructors, are NOT now safe to dive to 30m. Unfortunately, being
> numpties, they probably don't realise this.

Could somebody please define "numptie" for me. Reading into the context I
take it as being someone who is not very experienced. Am I the only one who
realises 2 fundamental facts here;

1. As we are not fish or amphibians it would seem that we all went through a
"numpty" phase with our diving. Surely we should encourage and help these
people out rather than christen them with misnomers.

2. How do you become not a "numpty"? MAYBE BY TAKING BASIC LEVEL DIVING
COURSES? If someone was taking a trimix course and had poor buoyancy
control, I would mark you right. But they were on an entry level course FFS.

> As an AOW, I feel comfortable
> diving to 30m, the diving aspect is no different from 18m except that it
> takes longer to get down and longer to get back.

Except the surface is 12m further away when the brown stuff hits the air
conditioning.

>What I am very
> uncomfortable with is the fact that I would be pretty shafted if things
got
> more than a little technical... hence the link in the sig...
>

Good descision. You'll get a lot out of it.

Keith

> > Could somebody please define "numptie" for me. Reading into the context
I
> > take it as being someone who is not very experienced.
>
> Ah, OK. Someone who is not very experienced would be described as a
> "newbie". A "numpty" will probably never get very experienced as his lack
> of commitment, lack of intellect, disregard for training, inability to
think
> for himself or any number of other numptyisms will either kill him or he
> will get bored because no-one will dive with him and give up the sport.
>

or they were taught OW by the same instructor who taught this AOW course
and they Knew no better. I was taught how to dive in my course then
I had to learn how to dive >>>>>>>>>>>>>

> > > > The numpties, through plenty of fault of their own and plenty of the
> > > > instructors, are NOT now safe to dive to 30m. Unfortunately, being
> > > > numpties, they probably don't realise this.
> > >
> > > Could somebody please define "numptie" for me. Reading into the
context
> I
> > > take it as being someone who is not very experienced.
> >
> > Ah, OK. Someone who is not very experienced would be described as a
> > "newbie". A "numpty" will probably never get very experienced as his
lack
> > of commitment, lack of intellect, disregard for training, inability to
> think
> > for himself or any number of other numptyisms will either kill him or he
> > will get bored because no-one will dive with him and give up the sport.
> >
>
>
> Thank you for defining that for me.

Glad I could be of service!

> > > Am I the only one who
> > > realises 2 fundamental facts here;
> > >
> > > 1. As we are not fish or amphibians it would seem that we all went
> through
> > a
> > > "numpty" phase with our diving. Surely we should encourage and help
> these
> > > people out rather than christen them with misnomers.
> >
> > Hopefully not! As per definitions above we all went through a "newbie"
> > phase, some of us will have gone through a "numpty" phase. The ones to
> > worry about are the "born-numpties" and those who enter a numpty phase
and
> > never make it out the other side...
> >
>
> But how could the original poster know whether they were newbies or
> numpties. (And why do I sound like I'm writing the script for a childrens
TV
> show or a bit of a Harry Potter book?!!) With all respect to his
experience,
> he was still particpating in an entry level course.
>
> Keith
>
>

I hope he made his judgement based on examining the "quality" of their
diving with respect to their claimed experience, their attitude towards
diving, safety and training.

The single fact that they turned up to a course admitting that they hadn't
done the independent study is as clear an indication of numptyism as you
could wish for.

A Numpty can quite easily spot Numptyish behaviour in another without
realising that they are themselves a Numpty. Not that I'm calling the OP a
Numpty, of course!

A newbie, and I am still a relative newbie, can quite easily spot Numpties
and other newbies quite readily.

I suspect, however that none of this will make it to the FAQ... Hmmm. I
suspect it will make it to my glossary pages though!!

And yes, I'm sure, if JKRowling reads UKRS, that Numpties will feature in
the next instalment.

CAS
--
PADI AOW? Get Rescue Training on UKRS Course #1 -
http://divesite.calumscott.me.uk/ukrs/rescue_diver_2004
Temperature @ Stoney? Find it or share it @
http://stoneytemps.calumscott.me.uk/

"david" <im@fedup.com> wrote in message
news:bq26o1$k0n$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
>
> > > Could somebody please define "numptie" for me. Reading into the
context
> I
> > > take it as being someone who is not very experienced.
> >
> > Ah, OK. Someone who is not very experienced would be described as a
> > "newbie". A "numpty" will probably never get very experienced as his
lack
> > of commitment, lack of intellect, disregard for training, inability to
> think
> > for himself or any number of other numptyisms will either kill him or he
> > will get bored because no-one will dive with him and give up the sport.
> >
>
> or they were taught OW by the same instructor who taught this AOW course
> and they Knew no better. I was taught how to dive in my course then
> I had to learn how to dive >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>


Ah well that is a possibility, but you and I both know (and despite what
might be portrayed in the PADI manuals) that there is more than one source
of information on diving. There are signs of "inability to think for
himself" in there wouldn't you say?

CAS
--
PADI AOW? Get Rescue Training on UKRS Course #1 -
http://divesite.calumscott.me.uk/ukrs/rescue_diver_2004
Temperature @ Stoney? Find it or share it @
http://stoneytemps.calumscott.me.uk/

"CAS" <calumscottTAKETHISBITOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bq23du$1t9bcq$1@ID-193985.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "Keith Manning" <keithmanningNOSPAM@tesco.net> wrote in message
> news:Y_%wb.8399$B03.4002455@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
> >
> > "CAS" <calumscottTAKETHISBITOUT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:bq1tot$1sa4cl$1@ID-
> >
> > > The numpties, through plenty of fault of their own and plenty of the
> > > instructors, are NOT now safe to dive to 30m. Unfortunately, being
> > > numpties, they probably don't realise this.
> >
> > Could somebody please define "numptie" for me. Reading into the context
I
> > take it as being someone who is not very experienced.
>
> Ah, OK. Someone who is not very experienced would be described as a
> "newbie". A "numpty" will probably never get very experienced as his lack
> of commitment, lack of intellect, disregard for training, inability to
think
> for himself or any number of other numptyisms will either kill him or he
> will get bored because no-one will dive with him and give up the sport.
>


Thank you for defining that for me.

> > Am I the only one who
> > realises 2 fundamental facts here;
> >
> > 1. As we are not fish or amphibians it would seem that we all went
through
> a
> > "numpty" phase with our diving. Surely we should encourage and help
these
> > people out rather than christen them with misnomers.
>
> Hopefully not! As per definitions above we all went through a "newbie"
> phase, some of us will have gone through a "numpty" phase. The ones to
> worry about are the "born-numpties" and those who enter a numpty phase and
> never make it out the other side...
>

But how could the original poster know whether they were newbies or
numpties. (And why do I sound like I'm writing the script for a childrens TV
show or a bit of a Harry Potter book?!!) With all respect to his experience,
he was still particpating in an entry level course.

Keith

"Keith Manning" <keithmanningNOSPAM@tesco.net> wrote >
> I'll ask the question again;
>
> Why did you do the AOW if you wern't expecting to
> get anything out of it?
>

I did it because I wanted the piece of plastic, to use on holidays. I
don't really like having to rely on the dive guide deciding he's happy
with the risk of taking me past the limit of my qualification.

I had 38 dives before I started the course, so I guess if I'd have a
competent instructor I should have got quite a lot out of it - as I
did when I got buddied with someone who happened to be an instructor
for a dive last time I was on holiday.

Sean

"Sean Houlihane" <tshoulihane@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f5d3bb73.0311260702.16d65f07@posting.google.c om...
> "Keith Manning" <keithmanningNOSPAM@tesco.net> wrote >
> > I'll ask the question again;
> >
> > Why did you do the AOW if you wern't expecting to
> > get anything out of it?
> >
>
> I did it because I wanted the piece of plastic, to use on holidays. I
> don't really like having to rely on the dive guide deciding he's happy
> with the risk of taking me past the limit of my qualification.
>
> I had 38 dives before I started the course, so I guess if I'd have a
> competent instructor I should have got quite a lot out of it - as I
> did when I got buddied with someone who happened to be an instructor
> for a dive last time I was on holiday.
>
> Sean

Yes, you should have learned something from them. I think that you can learn
something on every dive even if it's just trying out different kit
configuration. I have come across a few really good PADI instructors, a lot
of alright ones and a couple of bad ones. It does really make a difference
to the course outcome who is instructing it.

Keith