Vented Masks

Bit of a heads up to anyone who is instructing...

We teach each year's crop of trainees in a oner and get everything out
the way in the first term. The lectures come first and then a weekend in
the pool followed by a weekend in open water.

We had a problem with a mask which one of our trainees brought along
this year. The mask has a hard plastic nose cover, and a vent underneath
that nose cover - something which none of us had encountered before.

Two problems caused by this:

# clearing ears isn't easy with gloves on (fingers need to be forced up
inside the nose cover, gloved fingers are verging on being to big for this)

# mask clearing requires a head down rather than head up position, and
the head up position does not work.

So I got the trainee with a very favourable report from the instructor
who had taken her in the pool session. She was very confident and
capable, and seemed to be clearing her mask instinctivly. Unfortunalty
when we came to the partial flood, she didn't quite get it right (water
was still in the mask) so I demonstrated that the neck should be
straight, looking upwards. This didn't work - as the exhaled air just
went straight out through the vent, in fact letting more water in.

Note at this point I still did not understand what was going on - I
thought that she must have a hole in her mask-skirt. Luckily she was
exceptionally calm and collected and I lifted her to the surface (we
were only in 3m). On the shore we took the mask apart and worked out
what was going on, and she passed all the other practical sessions easily.

I'm *not* after apportioning blame here - my fault for trusting the
previous instructor / my fault for not investigating the mask more
thoughrolly / previous instructor for not flagging up the problem -
whatever.

I'd just like to issue a bit of a warning that there are such masks out
there, and traditional mask clearing techniques DO NOT WORK with them -
a head forward postion works exceptionally well though.

Ben


--
Ben Panter, Edinburgh
My name (no spaces)@bigfoot which is a com.

Hi Ben



From time to time I dive with a vented mask (cold water). With such a mask,
the easiest way to clear/vent the mask is to look up, place a hand on the
mask and apply a slight pressure (this seal the mask against the face) and
exhale, whereby the water is forced out through the vent. The vent needs to
be at the lowest position so all water can be cleared.



;-> gjw

"Ben Panter" <See@the_end.not> wrote in message
news:3FC5FA76.70904@the_end.not...
> Bit of a heads up to anyone who is instructing...
>
> We teach each year's crop of trainees in a oner and get everything out
> the way in the first term. The lectures come first and then a weekend in
> the pool followed by a weekend in open water.
>
> We had a problem with a mask which one of our trainees brought along
> this year. The mask has a hard plastic nose cover, and a vent underneath
> that nose cover - something which none of us had encountered before.
>
> Two problems caused by this:
>
> # clearing ears isn't easy with gloves on (fingers need to be forced up
> inside the nose cover, gloved fingers are verging on being to big for
this)
>
> # mask clearing requires a head down rather than head up position, and
> the head up position does not work.
>
> So I got the trainee with a very favourable report from the instructor
> who had taken her in the pool session. She was very confident and
> capable, and seemed to be clearing her mask instinctivly. Unfortunalty
> when we came to the partial flood, she didn't quite get it right (water
> was still in the mask) so I demonstrated that the neck should be
> straight, looking upwards. This didn't work - as the exhaled air just
> went straight out through the vent, in fact letting more water in.
>
> Note at this point I still did not understand what was going on - I
> thought that she must have a hole in her mask-skirt. Luckily she was
> exceptionally calm and collected and I lifted her to the surface (we
> were only in 3m). On the shore we took the mask apart and worked out
> what was going on, and she passed all the other practical sessions easily.
>
> I'm *not* after apportioning blame here - my fault for trusting the
> previous instructor / my fault for not investigating the mask more
> thoughrolly / previous instructor for not flagging up the problem -
> whatever.
>
> I'd just like to issue a bit of a warning that there are such masks out
> there, and traditional mask clearing techniques DO NOT WORK with them -
> a head forward postion works exceptionally well though.
>
> Ben
>
>
> --
> Ben Panter, Edinburgh
> My name (no spaces)@bigfoot which is a com.
>

Had a simelar mask meself when a i were a novice. (many moons past)
The valve fell out of the nosepiece altogether; instantly flooding the mask.
Thanks to my training I was not overly perturbed and found that my gloved
thumb plugged the hole quite nicely. I spent the rest of the dive thumbing
my nose at my dive-leader who also happened to be the club DO . He thought I
wasn't affording him the appropriate decorum due his status until I
explained meself on the surface

gjw wrote:
> Hi Ben
>
>
>
> From time to time I dive with a vented mask (cold water). With such a mask,
> the easiest way to clear/vent the mask is to look up, place a hand on the
> mask and apply a slight pressure (this seal the mask against the face) and
> exhale, whereby the water is forced out through the vent. The vent needs to
> be at the lowest position so all water can be cleared.

Yeah...

The valve is mounted front bottom, so the head needs to tilt forward
with this particular design - believe me, we spent a long time trying to
get it to clear in the traditional, head back position - with no luck!

Maybe your's is a better design?

Ben



--
Ben Panter, Edinburgh
My name (no spaces)@bigfoot which is a com.

Ben Panter wrote:
> We had a problem with a mask which one of our trainees brought along
> this year. The mask has a hard plastic nose cover, and a vent underneath
> that nose cover - something which none of us had encountered before.

They were quite common about a decade ago, although they do still make
them I can't recall seeing one recently. I wouldn't advise anyone getting
one, they're a gimmick, and not a particularly good gimmick either...

Al.

"Ben Panter" <See@the_end.not> wrote

> # mask clearing requires a head down rather than head up position, and
> the head up position does not work.

I've never run across a vented mask that I could not clear the standard,
heads up way.

>
> So I got the trainee with a very favourable report from the instructor
> who had taken her in the pool session. She was very confident and
> capable, and seemed to be clearing her mask instinctivly. Unfortunalty
> when we came to the partial flood, she didn't quite get it right (water
> was still in the mask) so I demonstrated that the neck should be
> straight, looking upwards. This didn't work - as the exhaled air just
> went straight out through the vent, in fact letting more water in.

Try lifting the skirt slightly.

> I'd just like to issue a bit of a warning that there are such masks out
> there, and traditional mask clearing techniques DO NOT WORK with them -
> a head forward postion works exceptionally well though.

Purge valve masks have been around almost as long as I have, and I've been
around more than half a century.

Lee

> > Try lifting the skirt slightly.
>
> Not the easiest thing to describe in cold, silty water with a novice
> diver who has a halfful mask...

That's true. That's why this skill is generally taught in a pool and not
moved to open water until it can be reliably done. Divers the world over
have been using this technique as long as there have been masks to clear.

> > Purge valve masks have been around almost as long as I have, and I've
been
> > around more than half a century.
>
> Lee, you dive in the states. I'm sure that you guys have many things
> which are common over there which we've never heard of here - and
> vice-versa. Personally, I've been diving for ten years and teaching for
> seven in the UK - and never seen one.

I find it hard to believe that the one you saw is the first purge valve mask
in the UK, particularly since at least some of the equipment I grew up with
came from European sources and even more came from Asia. Jacques was, after
all, European. I prefer to think that the lack of this particular mask in
your area is indicative of a more rational approach to equipment there.
Purge valve masks are not popular with experienced divers anywhere I know
of. They are something that only appeals to those who have not yet learned
to clear a mask the normal way.

Lee

Lee Bell wrote:
>>>Try lifting the skirt slightly.
>>
>>Not the easiest thing to describe in cold, silty water with a novice
>>diver who has a halfful mask...
>
>
> That's true. That's why this skill is generally taught in a pool and not
> moved to open water until it can be reliably done. Divers the world over
> have been using this technique as long as there have been masks to clear.

YES! And I wasn't the one who taught and signed off that skill in the
pool. I've had a conversation with the person who did, and that is now
sorted out and will not happen again.

The jist of the problem was that they were teaching the
look-straight-forward approach, and she was clearing fine - like me,
they hadn't seen the valve in the nose. When it came to open water and
she wasn't managing to get the last dribbles out of the mask, I showed
her to look upwards, which is where things went wrong.

>>Lee, you dive in the states. I'm sure that you guys have many things
>>which are common over there which we've never heard of here - and
>>vice-versa. Personally, I've been diving for ten years and teaching for
>>seven in the UK - and never seen one.
>
>
> I find it hard to believe that the one you saw is the first purge valve mask
> in the UK,

I'm as sure as you are that you are right. There may be thousands of
them here!

Me, Joe Public run-of-the-mill Instructor, had never seen one before.
There are lots of other folk who instruct here, perhaps they hadn't seen
one either. Perhaps they had. I wrote the post to all the other folk,
like me, who hadn't. I imagined the rest would ignore it.

> particularly since at least some of the equipment I grew up with
> came from European sources and even more came from Asia. Jacques was, after
> all, European. I prefer to think that the lack of this particular mask in
> your area is indicative of a more rational approach to equipment there.

Let's hope so...

Ben

--
Ben Panter, Edinburgh
My name (no spaces)@bigfoot which is a com.

"Ben Panter" wrote

> >>Not the easiest thing to describe in cold, silty water with a novice
> >>diver who has a halfful mask...

> > That's true. That's why this skill is generally taught in a pool and
not
> > moved to open water until it can be reliably done. Divers the world
over
> > have been using this technique as long as there have been masks to
clear.

> YES! And I wasn't the one who taught and signed off that skill in the
> pool. I've had a conversation with the person who did, and that is now
> sorted out and will not happen again.

Easy. Nobody blaming you for anything.

> > I prefer to think that the lack of this particular mask in
> > your area is indicative of a more rational approach to equipment there.
>
> Let's hope so...

Yep.

For what it's worth, there's more wrong with those masks than you
identified. The original ones, and just about everybody made one, had a
hard plastic valve located at the bottom of the nose section. The valves
stressed the soft mask material every time the ears were cleared. Quite
often, that was where masks failed. USD came out with masks that had the
valve, but in a sealed compartment. If you wanted to use the valve, you cut
the bottom off the compartment. If you didn't, you could pop the plastic
valve out, eliminating the mask damage problem. More recently, the valves
have been placed in the lens, usually off to one side or the other. For my
money, it's still a solution to a problem that does not exist, but it's
better than the old style valves.

The problem with clearing and wearing gloves would seem to be comparable
with or without the valve. To pinch one's nose, as I have to do, the
fingers must be able to reach the nose.

Lee