Inflators

"Keith S." <false@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:buk4c6$hmeu2$1@ID-169434.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Zak wrote:
>
> > - Making curious dog like pawing gesture with hands to attract buddys
> > attention (and subsequent ridicule).
>
> Is that the attention of the buddy who had disappeared off
> somewhere while said person was trying to disentangle themselves
> from monofilament trying to pull the mouthpiece out of their mouth?
> Oh alright, twas me on a crap vis dive on the City of Waterford :)

That'd be the one..... hey, I came back... count yaself lucky ;)

??>> I find it incredible that someone would bugger about with oral
??>> inflation when they have a perfectly servicable power inflate which
??>> can be crosspatched incredibly simply.

DW> Ummm... assuming you can reconnect the hose - which from experience
DW> isn't always very easy. And if its not easy, you expend a lot of
DW> effort and energy into doing it, and may be left with only oral inflate
DW> and no drysuit either!

Or you could expend a lot of effort trying to orally inflate when cross
patching would have been easier if you had tried it. It's a bit of a
conundrum.

DW> Have you never noticed how many people have problems connecting
DW> pressurised hoses even on the surface?

The old Apeks type seem to be a bit of a sod. I don't have a problem with
the schraders as long as they are rinsed and lightly oiled regularly.

DW> Might be easy for you, but at
DW> some point they all seem to go wrong, and would you like that time to
DW> be when you've just disconnected your remaining power-source of
DW> bouyancy? Alternatively, just go up on your suit, you won't need much
DW> air in to get you going since you should be dumping on the way up
DW> anyway. Swapping hoses seems a very complex solution to a very simple
DW> problem.

There seems to be two different methods of contigancy planning.
+ Think of every possible thing that could go wrong and find a specific
solution and skill to resolve each problem.
+ Don't think too hard about specifics but provide options to keep your
systems intact so you can use your normal skills.
I guess I am firmly in the second camp. Cross patching is an option, it is
not the only option. Divers have in the past cross patched in order to make
an escape, so it is an option I would like to have available. Unlike
swimming kit up and oral inflation, you can repeatedly practice cross
patching in 3m and be reasonably certain you will achieve it at 40 or 50m.

DW> Not that i'm saying having matching hoses is a bad idea, just
DW> not for that reason - servicing and spares on the surface seems like a
DW> much better use for it though.

Agreed, the number of situations where cross patching is useful U/W is
limited.

DW> In response to the general argument about people complaining and being
DW> unconstructive somewhere else in this thread, all i'm doing here, and I
DW> suspect what others are doing, is pointing out that there is a flaw in
DW> the idea of disconnecting hoses underwater

The Halcyon DSMB is designed to be filled from an LP inflate hose. I am
sure that if all the DIR wannabe's can disconnect and reconnect their DS and
BC inflates as a matter of course it is not beyond most of us.

DW> - its unnecessary for several reasons - oral inflate is possible and
DW> easy, can go up with no extra air anyway, can go up on drysuit if
DW> needed, etc, etc...

DW> Since the archive of the group is a well used
DW> resource for new divers, the alternative view really has to be given -
DW> if no one posted the alternative views then people reading the archive
DW> would get a one sided view and the whole group is then pointless (well,
DW> in some ways).

I think the complaint was at the manner of debate. It has been commented
before that the group may have evolved a number of dodgy debateing
practices.
The 'me too' - a personality posts something which is backed up by hoards
of sycophants.
The 'my mates' - a point is serially rubbished by a collection of people who
always agree with each other.
The 'researcher' - someone with little or no experience spouts what they
have read elsewhere.
The 'English teacher' - a point is shouted down because the posters language
skills are lacking.
The 'The pedant' - a complex point is discounted on a minor and immaterial
flaw in logic
The 'internet technicality' - a point is rubbished because the poster
neglected internet protocol
The 'flood' - a point gains credibility because the poster has time to write
reams of reasons why they are right.
The 'I'm bored' - a point is not worthy of discussion because it has been
discussed before.
The 'I have a rebreather' - a CCR divers interjects an disrupts a thread
discussing OC techniques, without making it clear they are not OC diving.

You can make your own mind up as to whether this actually goes on and
whether the group has declined over the years because of it.

Personally, I have been diving regularly since a little before this group
started and latterly on occassions the group concencus as to what I can and
can't do, what will and will not work has astonished me. AFAIC do not
believe anything you read here. Go off and practie it in shallow water for
yourself.

Regards
Matt

Jason <jason.usenet.nospam@ntlworld.com> writes:

>In a drysuit, you shouldn't need to use the wing. If you can manage with
>just the drysuit, you're screwed if you have a wing failure.

Is there a typo here, or something missing?

>The only circumstance I can see where I would need to swap inflators is if
>I lost my drysuit gas and I had to descend to a point where it would be
>painful before exiting the dive.

Having descended to 30m with no suit inflator and survived with only
a couple of bruises, I don't think that situation is going to arise
very often!

Pete

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KS> matts wrote:
KS>>> I don't get it. You take a breath out of your reg, take the reg out,
KS>>> breath it into your BCD/wing, then put the reg back into your mouth.
KS>>> Where is there a possibility to swallow seawater?
??>>
??>> I am crap at dancing too.

KS> Me too, but I have many years practise at breathing.

Oral inflation needs some co-ordination, I have none. I have orally
inflated during practice drills but it required a great deal of my
concentration throughout.

If breathing required co-ordination I would have asphyxiated years ago and
some might think that a good thing.

matts wrote:
> Oral inflation needs some co-ordination, I have none. I have orally
> inflated during practice drills but it required a great deal of my
> concentration throughout.

You are kidding me.

That sounds like the kids who wail that they can't do airway seperation
so I promise my demonstration with a balloon. So I throw them a balloon
and say "You blow it up" and start drawing balloons on the pad.

So they give me back an inflated baloon and look at me to start and
I ask them why they didn't have to hold their nose to blow it up.

If you can take a reg out of your mouth you can blow up a wing.
It's the same actions.

nigelH

NH> matts wrote:
??>> Oral inflation needs some co-ordination, I have none. I have orally
??>> inflated during practice drills but it required a great deal of my
??>> concentration throughout.

NH> You are kidding me.

NH> That sounds like the kids who wail that they can't do airway seperation
NH> so I promise my demonstration with a balloon.

Are others 'wailing' they can't reconnect their hoses? Sorry I do not have
a demonstration to show you how easy I find it.

NH> So I throw them a balloon and say "You blow it up" and start
NH> drawing balloons on the pad.
NH> So they give me back an inflated baloon and look at me to start and
NH> I ask them why they didn't have to hold their nose to blow it up.

What does that have to do with coordination?

NH> If you can take a reg out of your mouth you can blow up a wing.
NH> It's the same actions.

You sound just like my old PE teacher. What I never did get round to
telling him was
'If it is so flippin easy I would flippin do it so I don't have to listen to
you telling me how flippin easy it should be'

Like I say it is not impossible, but all that pushing buttons at the right
time ain't exactly intuitive for me. I would want to avoid it, if possible,
for a long ascent .

BTW What's so bad about knowing what your crap at?

Regards
Matt

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:50:54 +0000, matts wrote:

> Like I say it is not impossible, but all that pushing buttons at the right
> time ain't exactly intuitive for me. I would want to avoid it, if possible,
> for a long ascent .

What's the length of the ascent got to do with it? Surely you're dumping
air on the way up, not inflating it? All you need is a couple of breaths
into the wing at the bottom and even that's not necessary if you're not
too negative to swim up.

Jason

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Hello, Jason!
You wrote on Wed, 21 Jan 2004 18:37:32 +0000:

??>> Like I say it is not impossible, but all that pushing buttons at the
??>> right time ain't exactly intuitive for me. I would want to avoid it,
??>> if possible, for a long ascent .

J> What's the length of the ascent got to do with it?

The longer it takes the more chance there is of cocking it up.

J> Surely you're dumping air on the way up, not inflating it?

In an ideal World possibly. I read how numerous people on this list spend
all their time perfectly neutral and the no doubt text book perfect, only
ever dump ascents, they make everytime. Diving just isn't like that for me.
I am often negative and I routinely adjust buoyancy either way during an
ascent. Of course if you have never been negative and have never
overdumped, my issues are not your issues, but I suspect you are in a
minority. IIRC you have dived with me Jason, what do you think, are my
buoyancy/ascent skills good bad or average?

J> All you need
J> is a couple of breaths into the wing at the bottom and even that's not
J> necessary if you're not too negative to swim up.

At the start of a deep dive I am negative, too negative for my suit to lift
me without at best being diffcult to manage and at worse risking losing gas
through the neck seal. The depth effects the chance of my being able to
swim up. I can do it in a pool and from 6m. From 50m I would not like to
say. You would need to go quite a distance before expansion is going to be
helping you much.

Regards
MattS

"matts" <matts@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:j2jPb.26335$qx2.2964402@stones.force9.net

> Your point about the suit inflate being disconnected is possibly not as
> important as it seems. Prior to disconnecting I was figuratively stuck
> negative to the bottom unable to swim up with the suit. Disconnect the DS
> and I am still in the same position.

Now imagine the same scenario without a convenient hard bottom...

> V> But to promote hose-swapping in preference to oral
> V> inaflation in the absence of any qualification is ludicrous.
>
> Hold on, where exactly have I promoted hose swapping in preference to
> anything particularly.

You didn't. Someone else did - which is where I came in. You replied to
my post, remember?

> In the context of my reply to you I was pointing out that an individual may
> have a legitimate reason for their choice which you can not possibly assess
> across the internet.

That's always possible - but as I've said, to promote hose swapping in
preference to oral inaflation in the absence of any qualification is
ludicrous.

> So when you have scared off all but those that agree with you, are you
> more or less likely to learn?

If asking questions scares people off, then I would be wary of accepting
advice from them anyway. Whilst confidence does not imply correctness, a
thesis that cannot be examined is worthless.

> V> Wassit worth?
>
> I won't ask her to dance with you

Deal!

Vic.


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"matts" <matts@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:3gBPb.18108$tQ6.791673@wards.force9.net...
> At the start of a deep dive I am negative, too negative for my suit to
lift
> me without at best being diffcult to manage and at worse risking losing
gas
> through the neck seal. The depth effects the chance of my being able to
> swim up. I can do it in a pool and from 6m. From 50m I would not like to
> say.

Isnt that an issue of weighting?