DSMB inflate in cold water - purging

"Mark" <scubadoguk3@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:iH%Ob.89363$nt4.153895@attbi_s51...
>
> try a air gun it should be safer than a purge or as Vic said your own
> exhaust, you may end up in free flow and who needs that ?:)
>
>

I've got one of those things for blowing up various things on land, and it's
stiffer to operate than any purge button.

If you are getting that cold I think that you will have bigger problems if
the brown stuff hits the air conditioning. Cold hands and feet are often a
symptom of falling core temperature, so you might need a thicker undersuit.
Or as somebody else mentioned, shorter dives.

Keith

good points lets see dont use a air gun could free flow.
ok his fingers too are cold to disconect a lp hose and purge is stiff so
start at the begining and buy a pair of cold water gloves or better yet
don't dive it's to cold and dangerous :)

> Any comments? Will an air gun work well, or are there better options?
And
> I can't afford a self-inflating DSMB at the minute so thats not an option.

If this really is a question of being too cold then you should be asking
more about thermal protection. More likely this is a technique issue. You
should look carefully at how you hold the bag, the reel and the regulator.
IMHO the best technique for OC DSMB inflation is not to use a regulator at
all, but to use exhaust bubbles. This minimises the chance of a regulator
free flow and greatly simplifies buoyancy control. It does require practice
and is an inferior solution to having a self inflating system.

I'm not sure that I would bother with any of the air-gun ideas for OC use,
although I wonder if anyone has considered this for CC use where bubbles are
not so freely available (and mostly you don't want to be carrying 3 or more
self-inflating systems every dive)?

Cheers
Matt.

Imorital wrote:
> I'm not sure that I would bother with any of the air-gun ideas for OC
> use, although I wonder if anyone has considered this for CC use where
> bubbles are not so freely available (and mostly you don't want to be
> carrying 3 or more self-inflating systems every dive)?

I think a head count will reveal that most
of the group's CC users have the Buddy DSMBi.

If the self-inflate all goes wrong you can
fill it from the AutoFreeflow and if that
doesn't want to stop you just shut off the
diluent.

nigelH

"David Walker" <wbsdavenews@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:buhtj3$s6f$2@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk:

> Hi
> The last couple of weeks I've been in Stoney, and both times done a
> bit of DSMB deployment to keep myself in practice. Being cold though
> I've found that I can't actually press and hold the purge down fully
> because of my hands being so cold, not enough to purge quickly enough
> to deploy mid-water and get any sort of useful volume in the DMSB.
> Question is, what is the solution to that? The regs are just
> generally a fairly stiff purge from that sort of grip (in the mouth is
> OK because its pushing more from the arm than fingers). I don't
> suppose the purge can be made less stiff (Oceanic regs, bendy plastic
> purge, no spring or adjustment to purge). Obviously keeping my hands
> warm would be nice but not really easy to do. I thought maybe one of
> the little air gun things might be an idea, just connects to a LP hose
> - anyone use them, are they any good, easy to use, likely to freeze
> open and freeflow, give enough air quickly enough to inflate a DSMB?
> I've got enough ports to connect it, on my pony reg, so thats not a
> problem.
>
> Any comments? Will an air gun work well, or are there better options?
> And I can't afford a self-inflating DSMB at the minute so thats not
> an option.
>
> Thanks
>
> David
>
>

I think that you should either get better gloves or shorten your dive time.

Think about it: what else will you have difficulty with to
operate/manipulate when, for instance, you or your buddy get into trouble?


--
Michael Wolf
------------

Cthulhu for President! Why settle for the lesser evil?

remove stopspam to reply

"David Walker" <wbsdavenews@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<buhtj3$s6f$2@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>...
>
> Any comments? Will an air gun work well, or are there better options? And
> I can't afford a self-inflating DSMB at the minute so thats not an option.
>

Hi
Be aware of those little air guns. They're designed such that if
the sealing 'o' ring splits, then the spindle and push button get
fired out of the gun and the gun goes into violent free-flow. Not
only do you loose a vital bit of the gun, you also potentially loose a
lot of gas if you cannot get it unplugged quickly enough.

There is a simple fix which involves replacing the spindle with a new
one.

Rgrds
Callum

> Any comments? Will an air gun work well, or are there better options?
And
> I can't afford a self-inflating DSMB at the minute so thats not an option.

Thanks for the replies everyone.
Basically, from what i've read, you're saying keep warm so that it doesn't
become a problem in the first place, if I can't do that then get a
self-inflating DSMB, or try using exhaust bubbles to fill it.

The getting cold is obviously a problem, although I have to say I was
working on that as a separate problem / solution. I'm currently using some
3mm kevlar gloves, which frankly are rubbish! I thought about getting 5mm,
but then that restricts movement a bit, and then I thought try some titanium
3mm ones. Not sure about that yet.
I was also thinking about dry gloves, but i'm not 100% convinced. Everyone
I know who has them (with the connecting rings) has had problems with the
plastic ring getting cracked, just seems not to be very good quality plastic
and is easily cracked just due to the temperatures and normal use. I don't
really want to be replacing them every few months! Thought about the plain
dry gloves, with their own wrist seal, but they seem to be a bit of a pain
to get on.
If anyone knows of dry gloves with a good quality connecting system that
will attach easily and ideally not cheap crappy plastic that cracks in the
cold they would be a good consideration for me.
Oh, and someone mentioned it may be a sign of core temperature drop - last
dive I did I was waering a Weezle Extreme with a couple of (fairly thin and
old) jumpers on top, didn't feel particularly cold most of the time although
was starting to shiver a bit towards the end of the dive at which point we
were heading back.

With the other suggestions, I'll look into self inflating DSMB in the
future, but really just don't have the money at the minute - i've got £200
to live on 'til my next student loan cheque in mid-April!

I'll certainly give filling from exhaust bubbles a go, although i'd have
thought it'd take quite a few breaths to get enough air in to inflate it
well at the surface, especially for shallowish (6-10m) deployments, and by
the time you'd got enough air in i'd have been hanging on trying to stay
neutral for quite a while. Any tips on technique would be helpful! I'll
probably give it a go in the pool, although it only gives me 3m means I can
do it dosens of times in one night rather than twice every weekend or
whatever, see if I can master it!

Cheers!

David

David Walker wrote:

> The getting cold is obviously a problem, although I have to say I was
> working on that as a separate problem / solution. I'm currently using some
> 3mm kevlar gloves, which frankly are rubbish! I thought about getting 5mm,
> but then that restricts movement a bit, and then I thought try some titanium
> 3mm ones. Not sure about that yet.

The 5mm ones don't cause that much of a problem. I used to use the cheap
hyrotech ones from Stoney when I lived down there, but they needed
replacing every season. Since being in Scotland I've used scubapro
kevlar coated ones, about double the price but last twice as long and
seem to be better designed to flex.

> With the other suggestions, I'll look into self inflating DSMB in the
> future, but really just don't have the money at the minute - i've got £200
> to live on 'til my next student loan cheque in mid-April!

If you're a uni club, then you must have a stock of old kit hanging
around. You can make one by pilaging the suicide bottle from an old ABLJ
- unscrew the fitting, then get the back part out through the bladder
(you need to push it in, turn it through 90 degrees and move it through
the bladder hole.

Cut a hole in your DSMB (needs to be of the sealing variety) and screw
in your suicide bottle fitting. Fill the bottle, twist... and go.

You're left with a DSMBi with a bottle which is too big - and quite
possibly out of test / rusting / scary. AP will sell you a smaller and
newer one if you ask them - probably at a far lower cost than a full on
DSMBi.

If you haven't got any old ABLJs to hack drop me and email and I'll send
you a connector - I sabotaged one just the other day...

> I'll certainly give filling from exhaust bubbles a go, although i'd have
> thought it'd take quite a few breaths to get enough air in to inflate it
> well at the surface, especially for shallowish (6-10m) deployments, and by
> the time you'd got enough air in i'd have been hanging on trying to stay
> neutral for quite a while. Any tips on technique would be helpful!


The beauty of this technique is that your buoyancy doesn't change for
the first breath - (all your lung buoyancy goes into the SMB, and your
net buoyancy doesn't change). You then get a second breath in and the
SMB is half to three quarters full (depending on how big your lungs
are!) Even from 6m that will mean it will be full on the surface...

Ben

--
Ben Panter, Edinburgh
My name (no spaces)@bigfoot which is a com.

David Walker wrote:

> The getting cold is obviously a problem, although I have to say I was
> working on that as a separate problem / solution. I'm currently using some
> 3mm kevlar gloves, which frankly are rubbish! I thought about getting 5mm,
> but then that restricts movement a bit, and then I thought try some titanium
> 3mm ones. Not sure about that yet.

5mm gloves are OK as long as they are not too 'tight'. The first pair
I ever used were hopeless, I think they were Hydrotech ones. The best
ones are Scubapro ones that Runnymede sell which are miles warmer
and more flexible. Make sure that they fit well with your drysuit
so there is no flushing of water around the join.

Also check your hood. A huge amount of heat is lost from your head, so
get the best hood you can buy. What brought this home to me was diving
in Stoney last Feb. I had a crappy old Bodyglove hood that was a bit
torn in places, and I was really suffering from the cold. When I changed
the hood for a better one things got *so* much warmer.

> Oh, and someone mentioned it may be a sign of core temperature drop - last
> dive I did I was waering a Weezle Extreme with a couple of (fairly thin and
> old) jumpers on top, didn't feel particularly cold most of the time although
> was starting to shiver a bit towards the end of the dive at which point we
> were heading back.

Fact is that in cold water you will lose heat, it's just a question of
how fast. Doing a 30min plan instead of a 45min one can make a
significant difference in how much your core temperature drops.
Try taking a thermos of hot soup. Make sure you have a bit more
weight than normal so you can have more air in your suit.

Oh, and get some regs that have easier purge buttons... but then we
did give you advice on regs which you completely ignored :)

- Keith

"David Walker" <wbsdavenews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bukk7h$103$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk...
> > The 5mm ones don't cause that much of a problem. I used to use the cheap
> > hyrotech ones from Stoney when I lived down there, but they needed
> > replacing every season. Since being in Scotland I've used scubapro
> > kevlar coated ones, about double the price but last twice as long and
> > seem to be better designed to flex.
>
> Ooh, two votes for Scubapro! I'll have a nosey if I don't go in the
> dryglove direction!
> I have Stoney gloves at the minute, have to say they are complete rubbish,
> falling apart at the seams after about 6 months - the kevlar ones have a
> very vulnerable seam right on the palm of the hand which gradually pulls
> apart everytime you pull the gloves on. Although it has meant i've learnt
> to sew, whcih is very, ermmmm, odd! :O)

And one for Typhoon 3mm kevlars. They are as warm as the hydrotech 5mm ones
and don't restrict movement at all.

The biggest problem I've had with the Hydrotech ones is that the elasticated
wrist band is just plain wrong...

It is too long for a start and the neoprene seems to be really stiff (could
just be the fact that its 5mm rather than the 3mm I'm used to) so it doesn't
squish into your wrist and seal at all well. Note to glove manufacturers -
make 5mm gloves with a 3mm section where the wrist band is...

CAS
--
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Temperature @ Stoney? Find it or share it @
http://stoneytemps.calumscott.me.uk/