DSMB inflate in cold water - purging

> The 5mm ones don't cause that much of a problem. I used to use the cheap
> hyrotech ones from Stoney when I lived down there, but they needed
> replacing every season. Since being in Scotland I've used scubapro
> kevlar coated ones, about double the price but last twice as long and
> seem to be better designed to flex.

Ooh, two votes for Scubapro! I'll have a nosey if I don't go in the
dryglove direction!
I have Stoney gloves at the minute, have to say they are complete rubbish,
falling apart at the seams after about 6 months - the kevlar ones have a
very vulnerable seam right on the palm of the hand which gradually pulls
apart everytime you pull the gloves on. Although it has meant i've learnt
to sew, whcih is very, ermmmm, odd! :O)

> > With the other suggestions, I'll look into self inflating DSMB in the
> > future, but really just don't have the money at the minute - i've got
£200
> > to live on 'til my next student loan cheque in mid-April!
>
> If you're a uni club, then you must have a stock of old kit hanging
> around. You can make one by pilaging the suicide bottle from an old ABLJ
> - unscrew the fitting, then get the back part out through the bladder
> (you need to push it in, turn it through 90 degrees and move it through
> the bladder hole.
>
> Cut a hole in your DSMB (needs to be of the sealing variety) and screw
> in your suicide bottle fitting. Fill the bottle, twist... and go.
>
> You're left with a DSMBi with a bottle which is too big - and quite
> possibly out of test / rusting / scary. AP will sell you a smaller and
> newer one if you ask them - probably at a far lower cost than a full on
> DSMBi.

Now there's an idea! We've been meaning to get onto Buddy for months to get
replacement dump covers for the BCDs so we can get rid of the bottle
connector things. Not sure if theres any spare bottles lying around still,
but i'll have a look - if not i'll see how much they'd send me one for see
if its worth doing. Not sure i'd be particularly confident about hacking
holes in my DSMB mind, i've only had it a couple of months, but i'll have a
closer look if I can find the bits and how hard it looks! Might give it a
go, might just wait til I can afford one. See if the gloves solve the
problem I suppose, or the breathing thing.

> If you haven't got any old ABLJs to hack drop me and email and I'll send
> you a connector - I sabotaged one just the other day...

We've definately got the connectors, just the bottle i'd have to find.

> > I'll certainly give filling from exhaust bubbles a go, although i'd have
> > thought it'd take quite a few breaths to get enough air in to inflate it
> > well at the surface, especially for shallowish (6-10m) deployments, and
by
> > the time you'd got enough air in i'd have been hanging on trying to stay
> > neutral for quite a while. Any tips on technique would be helpful!
>
> The beauty of this technique is that your buoyancy doesn't change for
> the first breath - (all your lung buoyancy goes into the SMB, and your
> net buoyancy doesn't change). You then get a second breath in and the
> SMB is half to three quarters full (depending on how big your lungs
> are!) Even from 6m that will mean it will be full on the surface...

I have kind of tried this before, but I think my main problem was my bubbles
always missed! I'll have to improve my aim! Pool on Thursday for that one,
I can see it failing spectacularly! :O)

David

CAS <calumscottTAKETHISBITOUT@yahoo.com> writes:


>And one for Typhoon 3mm kevlars. They are as warm as the hydrotech 5mm ones
>and don't restrict movement at all.

The fit of the gloves is more important than the maker and what they
claim to be made out of. A close-fitting 3mm pair can be warmer than
a loose fitting 5mm pair, and because the thinner material is more
flexible it is usually easier to get a good fit from a 3mm pair.

That said, my vote also goes to 5mm 3-finger mitts. I've got a pair
that I bought in Norway with 'Scandinavian Model' emblazoned on them.
They're long enough to completely cover the wrist seal on my suit.

Anyone fancy a pair of medium Hydrotech dry gloves with wrist seals,
make me an offer.

Pete

--
__________________________________________________ __________________
Pete Young pete@antipope.org Remove dot. to reply
"Just another crouton, floating on the bouillabaisse of life"

"Imorital" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:bulmun$h7ieh$1@ID-203763.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > The fit of the gloves is more important than the maker and what they
> > claim to be made out of. A close-fitting 3mm pair can be warmer than
> > a loose fitting 5mm pair, and because the thinner material is more
> > flexible it is usually easier to get a good fit from a 3mm pair.
>
> I agree with Pete. Who made the gloves and what fancy material is bonded
to
> them is laregly unrelated to how worm they are. For cold water then 5mm
> gloves are going to give you a longer dive. Wet gloves only work properly
> is they fit properly. That means they should be just tight. For colder
> water (say less than 7C) then it is worth putting an extra base layer
> beneith the gloves to trap a little extra warm water. A pair of gloves
from
> the petrol station work very well for this (they last 2 dives are are free
> with every tank of fuel).
>
> In my experience gloves tend to compress (permanetly) by about 1mm over
the
> first few dives, so a new pair take a little time to bed in. Buying cheap
> gloves (about a tenner at a dive show) mean that as soon as they come
> unstiched you can ditch them for a new pair. Buying expensive ones seems
to
> make people hang onto them a little too long.

yep my cheap 3mm are warmer than my 5mm - they don't hav an adjustable wrist
so there is no fold for water to flush in and out of
because they fit around the wrists and seal better than my 5mm in which i
get cold hands and can feel nothing :(

> As far as I can see, dry gloves just aren't a significant improvement over
> proper fitting wet gloves.
>
> We've been getting 120mins plus in <5C water with 5mm's and a base layer
> with no cold or dexterity issues.
>
> Cheers
> Matt.
>

> I'll certainly give filling from exhaust bubbles a go, although i'd have
> thought it'd take quite a few breaths to get enough air in to inflate it
> well at the surface, especially for shallowish (6-10m) deployments, and by
> the time you'd got enough air in i'd have been hanging on trying to stay
> neutral for quite a while.

It takes about 2 hits to get a DSMB to hit the surface full from 12m, you've
got time for about 3 if your quick.

> Any tips on technique would be helpful! I'll
> probably give it a go in the pool, although it only gives me 3m means I
can
> do it dosens of times in one night rather than twice every weekend or
> whatever, see if I can master it!

Easiest way is to push your head back, hold the bag high, and look directly
into it. Get the position right and the air goes directly into the bad with
zero spillage. If you are neutral with a full breath (i.e. slightly
negative) then the first one does not affect your buoyancy at all. The
second one is going to start pulling you, so you'll need to be quick if you
need to do a third. 2 is usually enough, so just let it go as it pulls.
Takes a bit, but not a lot, of practice.

Cheers
Matt.

"Imorital" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:bulmun$h7ieh$1@ID-203763.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > The fit of the gloves is more important than the maker and what they
> > claim to be made out of. A close-fitting 3mm pair can be warmer than
> > a loose fitting 5mm pair, and because the thinner material is more
> > flexible it is usually easier to get a good fit from a 3mm pair.
>
> I agree with Pete. Who made the gloves and what fancy material is bonded
to
> them is laregly unrelated to how worm they are.

Agreed, I only mentioned the Kevlar bit to distinguish them from the
standard Typhoon ones which I reckon would wear out PDQ.

> For cold water then 5mm
> gloves are going to give you a longer dive. Wet gloves only work properly
> is they fit properly. That means they should be just tight.

Now this is the odd bit - my typhoon 3mms are not the best fit around the
fingers (very big hands but not much flesh on them...) where the Hydrotech
5mm ones are. The trouble with the Hydrotechs is that they are more
difficult to get sealed around the wrist to prevent water flushing through.
I may chop a bit out of the wrist bands to shorten them and see if that
helps. But for anyone buying gloves remember it is not just the fit around
the fingers...

> For colder
> water (say less than 7C) then it is worth putting an extra base layer
> beneith the gloves to trap a little extra warm water. A pair of gloves
from
> the petrol station work very well for this (they last 2 dives are are free
> with every tank of fuel).

People tell me that it makes getting wet hands into gloves easier too,
although I've never had that problem.

> In my experience gloves tend to compress (permanetly) by about 1mm over
the
> first few dives, so a new pair take a little time to bed in. Buying cheap
> gloves (about a tenner at a dive show) mean that as soon as they come
> unstiched you can ditch them for a new pair. Buying expensive ones seems
to
> make people hang onto them a little too long.
>
> As far as I can see, dry gloves just aren't a significant improvement over
> proper fitting wet gloves.

In my experience, I've only ever seen one diver with drygloves emerge from
the water with both hands still dry - one of the rest was very nearly in
tears with the pain...

....I'll stick to wetties!

> We've been getting 120mins plus in <5C water with 5mm's and a base layer
> with no cold or dexterity issues.

I obviously have less blood than you! 30mins in 5ish is more than enough
for me (mind you, an increase in torso protection would probably help
here...)

> Cheers
> Matt.
>

CAS
--
Well, we've done it... report will follow shortly at
http://divesite.calumscott.me.uk/ukrs/rescue_diver_2004
Temperature @ Stoney? Find it or share it @
http://stoneytemps.calumscott.me.uk/

DW> Thanks for the replies everyone.
DW> Basically, from what i've read, you're saying keep warm so that it
DW> doesn't become a problem in the first place, if I can't do that then
DW> get a self-inflating DSMB, or try using exhaust bubbles to fill it.

The DSMBi is very popular on this group but I don't particularly like them.
I was offered one cheap so bought it, used it a couple times and then went
back to using the exhaust because I find it quicker and easier.

DW> The getting cold is obviously a problem,

DW> With the other suggestions, I'll look into self inflating DSMB in the
DW> future, but really just don't have the money at the minute - i've got
DW> £200 to live on 'til my next student loan cheque in mid-April!

I used to buy expensive gloves but I now just buy the cheapest I can find.
Currently I have a set of 1mm yachting gloves and a set of 5mm (IIRC
Beaver). The 1mms are fine above 10C and the 5mm anything below that.

DW> I'll certainly give filling from exhaust bubbles a go, although i'd
DW> have thought it'd take quite a few breaths to get enough air in to
DW> inflate it well at the surface, especially for shallowish (6-10m)
DW> deployments, and by the time you'd got enough air in i'd have been
DW> hanging on trying to stay neutral for quite a while.

Personally I never fill a DSMB to the point it can lift me, so no more than
two or three breaths. My main non-self inflating AP DSMB is fine for 15m or
deeper. On shallower sites I use a much smaller backup. Shallow sites are
rarely offshore and your unlikely to be decoing so a small DSMB is
sufficient. IIRC the main cost £40 and the backup £15 which together is
less than the DSMBi.

DW> Any tips on technique would be helpful! I'll probably give it a go
DW> in the pool, although it only gives me 3m means I can do it dosens of
DW> times in one night rather than twice every weekend or whatever, see if
DW> I can master it!

It can help if you hold the DSMB open a few inches above the exhaust rather
than trying to put the exhaust in the bag. You want to try and get your
head as horizontal as possible so that the bubbles go straight up. It is
easier if you drop the reel whilst holding the bag open (pull about a foot
of line off first). Obviously it is easier to hold the bag open with both
hands but also the weight of the reel will help avoid slack line and
entanglement. Once you have the smb standing up you can run one hand down
the line to pick up the reel.

Even if you have mastered it in the pool make sure you practice in
progressively deeper water and then in currents in progressively deeper
water. DSMBs have the potential to seriously ruin your day so don't assume
you can do something that you have not practiced recently in similar
conditions. Give it a couple hundred deployments and you will be wondering
why people make a fuss about using the exhaust.

Regards
Matt

May wife and I have the N Diver dry gloves with the standard latex seals.
There is a definite technique to getting them on. With a compressed neoprene
suit with neoprene seals, it is quite possible to don them yourself but my
wife finds it almost impossible to do herself with latex seals.

I have a modification of some additional cuffs made with an old piece of
double sided smooth skinned neoprene (from a old suit of mine from 30 years
ago!) with a piece of insulation from electrical cable running through it.
This allows equalisation of pressure from the suit. The latex seal from the
glove sits on top of this cuff and the neoprene or latex seal from the suit
on top of that. Our hands stay perfectly dry and reasonably warm. However,
the hassle of donning them is only worthwhile in really cold water - like
next weekend at Stoney!

> The DSMBi is very popular on this group but I don't particularly like
them.

Did you already say why?

> I was offered one cheap so bought it, used it a couple times and then went
> back to using the exhaust because I find it quicker and easier.

Do you make mid-water deployments?

Cheers
Matt.

Scubapro do a nattly little air gun without a button- you simply bend
the rubber nozzle to release the air so no moving parts to spit out.
If it starts freeflowing, simply remove it from the QR on the hose.

You can get them online from www.simplyscuba.co.uk or I think Diver's
Whorehouse sells them too.

Woz.


>"David Walker" <wbsdavenews@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<buhtj3$s6f$2@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>...
>>
>> Any comments? Will an air gun work well, or are there better options? And
>> I can't afford a self-inflating DSMB at the minute so thats not an option.
>>
>
>Hi
> Be aware of those little air guns. They're designed such that if
>the sealing 'o' ring splits, then the spindle and push button get
>fired out of the gun and the gun goes into violent free-flow. Not
>only do you loose a vital bit of the gun, you also potentially loose a
>lot of gas if you cannot get it unplugged quickly enough.
>
>There is a simple fix which involves replacing the spindle with a new
>one.
>
>Rgrds
> Callum

Imorital wrote:
> In 15 years I've not had an AutoAir problem, so I can't agree with
> your AutoFreeflow statement, I'm afraid. Most problems with them
> seem to be bad adjustment for 1st stage IP or bad IP in the first
> place, rather than an actual AA issue.

You are clearly more fortunate than I. Of the three Inspirations
I have dived all have had the AutoAir freeflow at some point.
Currently mine is wound up as a tight breath but it is being good.
The IP is, if anything, low.

nigelH