Boat Handling with / without VHF?

I'm going to be doing a Boat Handling (BSAC / RYA) course towards the end of
February, so that i'll have got some experience before using our club RIB in
Oban over Easter. I was planning on doing the VHF (well, its not called
that anymore but you know what I mean) course sometime before Easter too,
but it may be that the only time we can run the VHF course is the same
weekend as my Boat Handling course.

I was just wondering if someone could help me with the actual requirements -
do I need to have done a VHF course to be left alone with a RIB, or is it
just a good idea and useful to have, and something I can learn the basics
from course notes and others who did the course?

I'm book on and paid for the Boat Handling so i'm definately doing that, but
we may be able to move the VHF if really needed - if I have to have it to
drive the RIB it should be able to be moved, otherwise that leaves one
person driving (well, piloting I suppose) for the whole week. If its just
useful, i'll read the notes and stuff, and do it another time.

Any ideas anyone?

Thanks!

David

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:27:25 -0000, "David Walker"
<wbsdavenews@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I'm going to be doing a Boat Handling (BSAC / RYA) course towards the end of
>February, so that i'll have got some experience before using our club RIB in
>Oban over Easter. I was planning on doing the VHF (well, its not called
>that anymore but you know what I mean) course sometime before Easter too,
>but it may be that the only time we can run the VHF course is the same
>weekend as my Boat Handling course.
>
>I was just wondering if someone could help me with the actual requirements -
>do I need to have done a VHF course to be left alone with a RIB, or is it
>just a good idea and useful to have, and something I can learn the basics
>from course notes and others who did the course?
>
>I'm book on and paid for the Boat Handling so i'm definately doing that, but
>we may be able to move the VHF if really needed - if I have to have it to
>drive the RIB it should be able to be moved, otherwise that leaves one
>person driving (well, piloting I suppose) for the whole week. If its just
>useful, i'll read the notes and stuff, and do it another time.
>
>Any ideas anyone?
>
>Thanks!
>
>David
>
You don't have to have done the VHF to use drive the boat, but you
really should have done the VHF course before you use the radio.

The VHF course includes the exam for your Marine Radio Short Range
Certificate which allows you to transmit. It also teaches you correct
radio etiquette and proceedures.

HOWEVER, if you are out in the boat, and have a major drama which
requires you summoning help using the VHF, then nobody is going to
give you a b*llocking for not having a license.

Then again, if you are in the middle of a drama, and can't summon help
because you've forgot how to work the set, you may wish you had done
the course.

Bottom line. Do the boat handling first, then book yourself on the VHF
whenever the next course comes up. You dont have to wait for your club
or BSAC to run one, there are plenty of RYA schools who will either
book you onto a course they are running or if you can get a group
together, organise one for you.
http://www.rya.org.uk/training/cours...32183&xref=rte

Over.

David

David Walker <wbsdavenews@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I was just wondering if someone could help me with the actual requirements -
> do I need to have done a VHF course to be left alone with a RIB, or is it
> just a good idea and useful to have, and something I can learn the basics
> from course notes and others who did the course?
>

I'm not sure what the exact requirements for the powerboat courses are but I believe
they are like the sailing qualifications, in that a VHF license is required to
progress beyond a certain stage. However, I would recommend anyone who is planning
to go out to sea in any kind of craft to have one as you can only legally use a
VHF marine radio with a valid license (or in the presence of someone who holds one)
and knowing how to get the correct information to the coast guard is vital.

The course is pretty easy (a demo with an instructor and a simple exam) and the
only prerequisite when I did mine was a passport photo with your name written on
the back. Well worth the money if you ask me

Nick

> I'm not sure what the exact requirements for the powerboat courses are but
I believe
> they are like the sailing qualifications, in that a VHF license is
required to
> progress beyond a certain stage. However, I would recommend anyone who is
planning
> to go out to sea in any kind of craft to have one as you can only legally
use a
> VHF marine radio with a valid license (or in the presence of someone who
holds one)
> and knowing how to get the correct information to the coast guard is
vital.

Well if I can't do the course i'd certainly go through everything it teaches
ya anyway, just without doing the exam at the end. I'll get round to doing
it at some point i'm sure...

David

David Walker wrote:

> I'll be around both before and after the course, i'm just away that
> weekend. I'm sure there'll be some notes / a book or something I can
> read through to get the basic idea, and i'll get someone to show me
> the radio on our boat properly before I go - i'll be doing a few
> trips just familiarising myself with our particular boat first anyway
> so have plenty of time to learn to use it - just won't have done the
> exam.

Evey VHF radio I've ever owned came with a book that discusses both
operation and the laws, rules and manners of VHF use. While the laws in the
UK are probably a bit different, operation of the radio and manners are the
same world wide, or are supposed to be. It's refreshing to hear somebody
actually pursuing information on how to do things right.

See if somebody around the club can make you a copy of the instruction book
that came with your radio or, failing that, one that came with any VHF
radio. Operation tends to at least be similar between models. If all else
fails, contact me again and I'll see what I can find to scan and e-mail. If
you know the make and model, I may be able to provide something quite close.

Lee

> See if somebody around the club can make you a copy of the instruction
book
> that came with your radio or, failing that, one that came with any VHF
> radio. Operation tends to at least be similar between models. If all
else
> fails, contact me again and I'll see what I can find to scan and e-mail.
If
> you know the make and model, I may be able to provide something quite
close.

Cheers for the offer; we haven't had the radio in our boat long so the book
for it'll be in the filing cabinet, ta anyway. It'll be a bit of light
reading for me :O\

Still hoping to get the VHF course moved, but i've got another month before
the boat handling, and almost two months before our Easter trip so there's
plenty of time to get it all sorted and learn to use it all. Now I know
what I need to do it should all be easy enough to get enough knowledge to
use it.

Actually, another thought has occurred to me - even if i'm the only boat
handler at the time, a lot of our new members are doing the VHF course, so
there's bound to be someone else on the RIB who knows how to use it... of
course if they're all in the water it won't help, but is another option!

David

> do I need to have done a VHF course to be left alone with a RIB, or is it
> just a good idea and useful to have

About 10 years ago I was a member of a university club. We were split into
2 groups - one group of 6 diving a RIB and one of 12 diving from a hard
boat. We all met at the Shuna in the Sound of Mull for our dive. After the
dive the RIB went back to Salien to pick up it's trailer and van and drive
back to Tobermory. We were on the hard boat and steamed straight to
Tobermory.

About 2 hours after we arrived back in Tobermory there was no sign of the
RIB. About an Hour later we assumed they may be having difficulty
recovering the trailer, so we headed south in the minibus to help them.

At Sailen there was nobody, but the van & trailer were their. They were 4
or 5 hours over due.

What we later found out was that the driver of the RIB has stalled the
engine shortly after we had left in the hard boat. It was a pull start but
after 5 pulls the rope snapped. As he was fixing up the spare pull start,
and with the engine lid open, a wave soaked the engine and it was dead.

Sadly, to compound the problem, the elephants trunk arrangement now failed
and the boat filled with water. All the kit and the people we tied/hanging
to a RIB which was now flush with the water.

Luckily they had a VHF and luckily it was charged. Oban coastguard heard
the call and a local dive boat abandoned their dive on the Rondo to go and
help. It cost alot of beers to compensate those divers for missing their
dive.

Without the VHF radio the outcome could have been very different.

Your question: your call.

Cheers
Matt.

Imorital wrote:

> Without the VHF radio the outcome could have been very different.

I think it's worth separating the legalities from the logic here. The U.S.
used to require a license to operate a marine radio. They gave that idea up
years ago for at least two reasons. The law was generally ignored and
putting such a restriction on such an essential safety device is just plain
foolish. There's a hint there for those who look for it. I spend a fair
amount of my boating time out of sight of land. My cruiser has a primary
radio at the helm and a backup radio, attached to an independent antennae,
in the cabin. I have a handheld as a backup for the two fixed mount radios
which doubles as my Rib/Dinghy radio. You may assume I think a VHF radio is
essential safety equipment.

By all means, follw the law. If you are supposed to ahve a VHF license, get
one. Do not, however, let that stop you from having a radio aboard, from
knowing how to use it. The key controls are squelch, channel selection and
a push to talk button. How hard can it be?

While I'm on the subject, there's a rather nice feature offered on many VHF
models sold here in the States. I presume it's also available there. While
they are marketed under different names, it's essentially a panic button.
Some VHF radios are designed to connect to a GPS and, when the button is
pressed, broadcast a Mayday signal that includes the name or other
identification of the vessel and it's location. It's a very nice feature
if/when you're busy doing something else, administering first aide, for
instance.

Lee

Lee Bell <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote:
> Imorital wrote:
>
>> Without the VHF radio the outcome could have been very different.
>
> one. Do not, however, let that stop you from having a radio aboard, from
> knowing how to use it. The key controls are squelch, channel selection and
> a push to talk button. How hard can it be?

I'm sorry, I really don't agree with you here. A VHF radio is not just used for
mayday calls; it can also be used to relay mayday calls if you see someone in
distress as well as send an receive safety information (for example, if you
see a container floating in the water you can call that info in so others
can avoid it as well - not an easy thing to do at speed!) and communicate
generally. For example, the first thing you should do before heading out on
a pleasure craft is to call the coastguard and let them know the name of your
craft, the number of people on board and where you are going to be. This allows
them to keep an eye on you, increasing your safety and aiding their rescue
attempts should you get into trouble and not be able to get a mayday off.

There is also a very important control you have missed out and that is the power
control. This sets how much power your signal has and can easily flood out other
users or mean that people are much less likely to hear your mayday. Add to that
the knowledge of channels and which one to use for what (call a mayday on anything
other than 16 and it may not be heard!) and what seems like a very easy to use bit
of equipment turns out to be a lot harder than you think

>
> While I'm on the subject, there's a rather nice feature offered on many VHF
> models sold here in the States. I presume it's also available there. While
> they are marketed under different names, it's essentially a panic button.
> Some VHF radios are designed to connect to a GPS and, when the button is
> pressed, broadcast a Mayday signal that includes the name or other
> identification of the vessel and it's location. It's a very nice feature
> if/when you're busy doing something else, administering first aide, for
> instance.
>

The SOS button is standard on all GMDSS radios in Europe as well these days
but should only be used when there is a chance of loss of life, something
that first aid may not fit the bill (you should put through a Pan-Pan call
instead for that). In addition, if you hold the button down for three seconds
then you can select the type of mayday on a menu on the set, which is a big
help to the rescue services.

Nick

> >> Without the VHF radio the outcome could have been very different.
> >
> > one. Do not, however, let that stop you from having a radio aboard,
from
> > knowing how to use it. The key controls are squelch, channel selection
and
> > a push to talk button. How hard can it be?
>
> I'm sorry, I really don't agree with you here. A VHF radio is not just
used for
> mayday calls; it can also be used to relay mayday calls if you see someone
in
> distress as well as send an receive safety information (for example, if
you
> see a container floating in the water you can call that info in so others
> can avoid it as well - not an easy thing to do at speed!) and communicate
> generally. For example, the first thing you should do before heading out
on
> a pleasure craft is to call the coastguard and let them know the name of
your
> craft, the number of people on board and where you are going to be. This
allows
> them to keep an eye on you, increasing your safety and aiding their rescue
> attempts should you get into trouble and not be able to get a mayday off.

I think the point is, being able to use a radio isn't a requirement to be
able to drive a boat - but not legally being able to use one doesn't mean
you shouldn't carry one for emergencies. The point is, I may not be able to
do the exam to get actual certification before I'm out on the boat, but then
maybe I will, but in either case I will be certain to learn how to use the
radio to the exact same level as anyone else who has done the course and
passed the exam.
No I may not be able to use it to warn others of floating hazards, or be
necessarily be able to relay distress calls (although in reality, license or
not, I wouldn't refuse to relay calls for help from other boats), but then
if I decided I couldn't use the boat until I had the license then I wouldn't
be there to spot a flating hazard anyway, no difference caused, and I
woulnd't be there to help at all to other craft, surely a worse position
than going out and using the radio unlicensed don't you think?
And for calling out on leaving and returning, there will almost certainly be
others on the boat who are licensed, so making those calls will be no
problem - only when i'm alone on the boat would I be unlicensed to use the
radio, and its those circumstances which would likely be emergency
situations and as such would ignore the licensing to get help, or to help
others.


> There is also a very important control you have missed out and that is the
power
> control. This sets how much power your signal has and can easily flood out
other
> users or mean that people are much less likely to hear your mayday. Add to
that
> the knowledge of channels and which one to use for what (call a mayday on
anything
> other than 16 and it may not be heard!) and what seems like a very easy to
use bit
> of equipment turns out to be a lot harder than you think

Obviously things like that are important, I haven't done a radio course yet
but will have done before I go out on the boat. Now, I'd presume for
near-shore RIBs the power setting would remain relatively constant, could be
set by someone else and left alone - that may not be true in which case i'd
find that out later. In either case, I will know how to set all of this, I
will have the exact same working knowledge of VHF as those who did the
exam - the only element I will have missed is the official exam. To me,
thats a legal problem only, and will be solved as soon as I can get an exam
done. Until then, I will be happy to go out on a boat without a license,
happy in the knowledge I can competently use a radio when necessary.

David