Info please

"Imorital" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:c030eq$12m9cl$1@ID-203763.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > KISS. I think they're the main in use in the UK although
> > someone will tell me I've missed something major.
>
> A Canadian kit sold without Wing/Harness/Cylinders. Cost for all parts
> about £4K. You import it yourself.

Forgive me if I sound irritable..... but if you dont know the facts, its
better to keep schtum!

The KISS is $4,200. At the current exchange rate, that makes it somewhat
more attractive than you suggest. Add to that tanks/o2 cells/HP hose and
guages (£400) and a wing/backplate (most already have this).

> I think someone is offering a KISS specific course now, but most people I
> know did an Inspiration course for about £500 prior to diving it.

Yes, theres an IANTD course now. Martin Robson ran mine

>
> Personally I wouldn't buy a KISS, but each to their own.
>
> Cheers
> Matt.
>

Matt, perhaps you might want to break that one down, rather than just
offering an opinion. The KISS is a very different beast, some like it, some
dont, but an opinion without arguments is relatively worthless


/Z

"Vic" <vic@innocent.com> wrote

>
> I think you mis-spelt "piss take"
>
> HTH
>
> Vic.
>

Heh, we're not nurses... why would we take urine samples :)

On topic tho... Since oyu have to be able to strip and maintain yout Insp,
everyone I've read so far replyign to you says the knowledge you learn of
the insp stripping and lookign at i tin thecourse is equal to what is takes
in the KISS to learn, I'd say the Insp seems to have an advantage, that if
it comes all put together... you then can see where everything goes BEFORE
you have to try and put it together... as opposed to recieveing a confusing
bundle of miscellanious oddments :)

But then... what do I know of CCRs when i've never even seen one in RL... :)
ain't the web great... instant experts ;)

rhys

"rnf2" <rnf2@NOSPAMwaikato.ac.nz> wrote in message
news:4025932c@news.iconz.co.nz

> Heh, we're not nurses... why would we take urine samples :)

Errr - because we can? *grin*

> I'd say the Insp seems to have an advantage, that if
> it comes all put together... you then can see where everything goes BEFORE
> you have to try and put it together... as opposed to recieveing a confusing
> bundle of miscellanious oddments :)

Hmmm... There *might* be the edge there in that that might make it
easier to learn - but I wouldn't put much stock in that. TBH, all the
CCR courses teach you what you need to know for that unit - I don't
think I'd rate any of them higher than the rest...

> But then... what do I know of CCRs when i've never even seen one in RL... :)
> ain't the web great... instant experts ;)

Your email addy says NZ - so I'm not sure I can help much. But if you're
evet in Hampshire, I'll happily show you round my unit

Vic.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

rnf2 wrote:


> On topic tho... Since oyu have to be able to strip and maintain yout Insp,
> everyone I've read so far replyign to you says the knowledge you learn of
> the insp stripping and lookign at i tin thecourse is equal to what is takes
> in the KISS to learn, I'd say the Insp seems to have an advantage, that if
> it comes all put together... you then can see where everything goes BEFORE
> you have to try and put it together... as opposed to recieveing a confusing
> bundle of miscellanious oddments :)

The KISS comes assembled, apart from 4 O rings. You need to strip
it down to fit them and rebuild, usually takes a couple of goes
before you've understood what goes where...

- Keith

On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 18:17:24 -0000, "Zak" <Zak@nospam.cruelmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"Imorital" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:c030eq$12m9cl$1@ID-203763.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> > KISS. I think they're the main in use in the UK although
>> > someone will tell me I've missed something major.
>>
>> A Canadian kit sold without Wing/Harness/Cylinders. Cost for all parts
>> about £4K. You import it yourself.
>
>Forgive me if I sound irritable..... but if you dont know the facts, its
>better to keep schtum!
>
>The KISS is $4,200. At the current exchange rate, that makes it somewhat
>more attractive than you suggest. Add to that tanks/o2 cells/HP hose and
>guages (£400) and a wing/backplate (most already have this).
>

Mine cost me around 3k complete, in 2002
A lot less than the YBOD.

>>
>> Personally I wouldn't buy a KISS, but each to their own.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Matt.
>>
>
>Matt, perhaps you might want to break that one down, rather than just
>offering an opinion. The KISS is a very different beast, some like it, some
>dont, but an opinion without arguments is relatively worthless
>
This could be interesting.

--
Steve Barlow

"Sausages are not DIR" Lee Bell

"Zak" <Zak@nospam.cruelmail.com> wrote in message
news:4T9Vb.1087$cb7.7312@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...

> The KISS is $4,200. At the current exchange rate, that makes it somewhat
> more attractive than you suggest. Add to that tanks/o2 cells/HP hose and
> guages (£400) and a wing/backplate (most already have this).


So about £1655 UKP and so far I have about £1000 UKP saved up towards my
KISS ( would have more but my 2 month old daughter Erin Haf is requiring it
more) if only I could sell the Dolphin I could have the KISS in time for
Easter..

MarkW

nospam to scuba to reply

Imorital wrote:

> Is $4,200 (Canadian? £1,750) the cost of the Kit from Jetsam?

It's US$, not Canadian.

- Keith

> > Personally I wouldn't buy a KISS, but each to their own.

> Matt, perhaps you might want to break that one down, rather than just
> offering an opinion.

Not really. It's just an opinion. The reasons that I wouldn't buy one for
a often trounced when others put them. KISS suits some people, it doesn't
suit everyone. It wouldn't suit me.

> The KISS is a very different beast, some like it, some
> dont, but an opinion without arguments is relatively worthless

I agree, my worth is questionable. Thank you for pointing that out to me.

Personally I'd rather have a well tested, locally available device with a
user base of 1000's. I prefer to be able to locally source parts and to
have the unit delivered to me without any great effort. I prefer servicing
to be only a day's round-trip drive away. I like to be able to visit and
speak to the manufacturer and to see inovations of theirs on a stand a both
LIDS and the NEC shows. I want a device that is capable of being lifed from
the box and taken to 100m without any modifications. At the time I invested
I also wanted a specific course to be available. Price isn't something I
consider importent to the choice. These are the things that I want, and are
the things that drive my opinion. These observations are largely
uninteresting to someone else, hence why I left them out.

Cheers
Matt.

"Imorital" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:c07ltq$13rnsa$1@ID-203763.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > Personally I wouldn't buy a KISS, but each to their own.
>
> > Matt, perhaps you might want to break that one down, rather than just
> > offering an opinion.

> Not really. It's just an opinion. The reasons that I wouldn't buy one
for
> a often trounced when others put them. KISS suits some people, it doesn't
> suit everyone. It wouldn't suit me.

Aha, but I did it for the sake of accuracy.....

> > The KISS is a very different beast, some like it, some
> > dont, but an opinion without arguments is relatively worthless
>
> I agree, my worth is questionable. Thank you for pointing that out to me.

Not a problem, I can run a PADI specialty in "worthlessness identification"
if it helps. £100 to you ;)

>
> Personally I'd rather have a well tested, locally available device with a
> user base of 1000's. I prefer to be able to locally source parts and to
> have the unit delivered to me without any great effort. I prefer
servicing
> to be only a day's round-trip drive away. I like to be able to visit and
> speak to the manufacturer and to see inovations of theirs on a stand a
both
> LIDS and the NEC shows. I want a device that is capable of being lifed
from
> the box and taken to 100m without any modifications. At the time I
invested
> I also wanted a specific course to be available. Price isn't something I
> consider importent to the choice. These are the things that I want, and
are
> the things that drive my opinion. These observations are largely
> uninteresting to someone else, hence why I left them out.

- Local Support, fair enough, cant argue with you there, AP are excellent.
- Out of the box to 100m, so is the kiss. The current O2 add runs at 11 bar
(ish)
- Innovations. Erm, ditto for the kiss, probably more so right now...
including your choice of 4 potential electronic setpoint controllers, if
thats your bag.
- Specific course. The KISS has one too, IANTD Mod 1/2/3

Now you know why I wanted you to post your reasoning, since it would appear
some of them needed 'updating'.

Thanks!

/Zak

> > Personally I'd rather have a well tested,

Do I need to update this? Which organisation is doing the scientific
testing of the KISS?

> device with a
> > user base of 1000's.

You didn't update this one, did you? How may KISS units have sold?

> I prefer to be able to locally source parts and to
> > have the unit delivered to me without any great effort. I prefer
> servicing
> > to be only a day's round-trip drive away.

You agreed with this one. APD are local to the UK.

> I like to be able to visit and
> > speak to the manufacturer and to see inovations of theirs on a stand a
> both
> > LIDS and the NEC shows.

Was the KISS stand at the last NEC show? Did I miss it?

I didn't see any of the 3rd-party electronics either. Were they there?

> I want a device that is capable of being lifed
> from
> > the box and taken to 100m without any modifications.

You pointed out 11 bar to me. My undertanding of KISS is that the add is at
a constant interstage pressure. Is that right? Doesn't that mean no O2 add
at 100m (11bar)?

> At the time I
> invested
> > I also wanted a specific course to be available.

My original post said that this was now available, so I didn't need
updating.

> Price isn't something I
> > consider importent to the choice.

You didn't comment about this one?

> including your choice of 4 potential electronic setpoint controllers, if
> thats your bag.

Who is making these? More importantly, who is testing them? I did say that
I wanted a "weel tested" unit, didn't I?

> Now you know why I wanted you to post your reasoning, since it would
appear
> some of them needed 'updating'.

I knew before, thanks.

I still wouldn't buy a KISS, and I don't find your arguments against my
opinions persuasive. If there not persuasive then perhaps they are also
worthless. Fancy sharing a lift for the PADI worthlessness course?

Cheers
Matt.