uk diving---what do i need?

"Nigel Hewitt" <nigelh@REMOVETHISnigelhewitt.net> wrote in message
news:c06fo7$i02$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> Budweiser wrote:
> > "Vic" wrote
> >> The trick really is to make sure you can deploy cleanly every time.
> >> This takes practice...
>
> > so in theory--my red one can be either manual or self inflate,but the
> > yellow should be automatic
>
> Err no. Self inflates are bulky and need filling/checking every dive.
> The yellow needs to be compact so you don't begrudge it storage
> space on every dive with the expectation of never using it.
>
> And anyway do your dive group take drop tanks?
> I have one I could use. Several of the people here have them but it's
> no use putting up a yellow if you haven't agreed the action you are
> requesting and if you want kit...
>
> The red gets to go on most UK dives and gets used on at least half
> of them so auto is a bonus. However even auto-inflates don't always
> auto0-inflate so you need to be used to filling it manually. I have
> memories of Huw holding onto one of my fins on the M2 (thanks) as I
> sorted out a blob with just a little air in it and a stripped thread on
the filler.
>
> nigelH
>
>
Starting to understand the UK diving ethos----if it can go wrong it
will---so auto is not a good way to go,acceptable for the red--hi i am
here---but should there be troubles, go back to basic and inflate the yellow
manually,no chance of failure.
There again why pay for the little bottles when you can easily inflate them
manually.
Less Tech and more manual / simple equipment seems to be the order of the
day---a reasoning i can not argue with--less/reduced chance of failure

Not something that i have considered before,but it does make perfect sense.

thanks for the comments

"Budweiser" <bud.bottle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:oJyVb.1804$vo1.89@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net

> Yes i will need to learn how to deploy--but for the price of them i might
> aswell get one of each---its in the bag etc,and i can probably get a
> discount buying the items i need as a single purchase.

I doubt the discount will be worth talking about, really. But what's
important here is that you don't overload on kit at this stage; it's a
common fallacy that more equipment compensates for less ability...

> so in theory--my red one can be either manual or self inflate,but the yellow
> should be automatic

I now have an auto-inflating red blob, but that's comparatively new;
I've been using a manual one for years and it's been just fine. I only
bought the auto one because it's less hassle CC.

As for the yellow - that depends very much on how you're going to use
it. The signal I usually agree with skippers is to send a yellow blob
*up the same line* to indicate problems. For this, I have a CO2-powered
blob with a karabiner on the end - but that's just the result of the
protocol I use; a different protocol might well require different kit.
You should find out local practice wherever you're intending to do this.
There is no single, universal solution.

Vic.



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"Budweiser" <bud.bottle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sPzVb.2018$cb7.14062@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net

> Starting to understand the UK diving ethos----if it can go wrong it
> will

That's the general gist of it...

> so auto is not a good way to go,acceptable for the red--hi i am
> here---but should there be troubles, go back to basic and inflate the yellow
> manually,no chance of failure.

That's not how I would play it.

Most of us with auto-inflating red buoys have the Buddy SMBCi. These are
just the same as the SMBC, but with a bottle attached. So if the inflate
fails (forgot to fill it again...), you fall back to the next plan. In
my case, that will mean a manual inflation *of that buoy*. There's no
need to start discarding kit just yet...

> There again why pay for the little bottles when you can easily inflate them
> manually.

There are times it pays dividends.

> Less Tech and more manual / simple equipment seems to be the order of the
> day---a reasoning i can not argue with--less/reduced chance of failure

I think it was Einstein who said "things should be as simple as possible
- and no simpler". There's no need to discard technology just because it
is technology, but at the same time, you ought to think through the
failure modes first. When things go wrong, the best place to be is in
the pub...

Vic.


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"Vic" <vic@innocent.com> wrote in message
news:216e147b45ad179cb305dc809ce77c4f.60200@mygate .mailgate.org...
> "Budweiser" <bud.bottle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:oJyVb.1804$vo1.89@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net
>
> > Yes i will need to learn how to deploy--but for the price of them i
might
> > aswell get one of each---its in the bag etc,and i can probably get a
> > discount buying the items i need as a single purchase.
>
> I doubt the discount will be worth talking about, really. But what's
> important here is that you don't overload on kit at this stage; it's a
> common fallacy that more equipment compensates for less ability...
>
> > so in theory--my red one can be either manual or self inflate,but the
yellow
> > should be automatic
>
> I now have an auto-inflating red blob, but that's comparatively new;
> I've been using a manual one for years and it's been just fine. I only
> bought the auto one because it's less hassle CC.
>
> As for the yellow - that depends very much on how you're going to use
> it. The signal I usually agree with skippers is to send a yellow blob
> *up the same line* to indicate problems. For this, I have a CO2-powered
> blob with a karabiner on the end - but that's just the result of the
> protocol I use; a different protocol might well require different kit.
> You should find out local practice wherever you're intending to do this.
> There is no single, universal solution.
>
> Vic.
>
>
>
> --
> Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Point taken
"You should find out local practice wherever you're intending to do this.
There is no single, universal solution."

The idea behind the question was to gain advice(plenty given)--not to
overload with extranious equipment.
I am no newcomer to diving--but brand new to the uk waters and all the
"unwritten" rules and expectations therin----i will ensure i recieve proper
and correct training in new (to me) kit and look forward to diving my home
water which by all accounts is the best in the world for wrecks etc

thanks for all the advice

Bud wrote
>> so in theory--my red one can be either manual or self inflate,but the
>> yellow should be automatic

Nigel wrote
>
>Err no. Self inflates are bulky and need filling/checking every dive.
>The yellow needs to be compact so you don't begrudge it storage
>space on every dive with the expectation of never using it.
>
>Snipped<

Sorry chaps, I was trying to keep my response short so didn't include details
on the auto inflate option.

Use whatever type of primary you wish and inflate by any method you wish. Carry
a spare reel if you wish,

Backup, There are a couple of very compact self inflate yellow blobs with
single use CO2 cartridges fitted, to deploy- clip the carabiner around the
primary line, tug a small toggle and its away. Single use isn't a problem,
hopefully it can stay in a pocket and new cartridges aren't expensive.

This backup blob convention isn't a hard and fast rule. Some groups wouldn't
know what it means so clarifying with the skipper and surface cover is a good
idea. You aren't even expected to carry one. Just imagine seeing 2 buoys
(whatever colour) appearing on 1 line- that's unusual and worth checking out.

The idea of a yellow blob alone to signal for assistance would be ok but some
people only have a yellow and use them as primary. Some buoys are red on 1 side
and yellow on the other! I hadn't heard of this convention when I got my 1st
buoy and could have easily chosen yellow for higher visability.

Rob H

Rob Hampton <rhamp3601@aol.comnojunk> wrote:
>
> The idea of a yellow blob alone to signal for assistance would be ok but some
> people only have a yellow and use them as primary. Some buoys are red on 1 side
> and yellow on the other! I hadn't heard of this convention when I got my 1st
> buoy and could have easily chosen yellow for higher visability.
>

Just out of interest, TDI state that you should use a yellow blob for normal
use and an orange one for an emergency (well, in the deco procedures manual I
have days that anyway, not sure if its been changed since).

Nick

> > I could not follow Calum reasons for buying a yellow self inflating
> > smb unless he was then going to swap it over with his red one and keep
the
> > yellow for using as an alert / problem marker.im sure he will be along
> soon to explain.
>
> I'm going to make some assumptions here, primarily that we're not talking
> about a SMB, but a DSMB. In other words, we're talking about something
that
> is carried during the dive and deployed prior to surfacing. The red DSMB
is
> the standard, providing both a signal as to the location of the diver and
a
> line to the surface to facilitate the ascent and any decompression stops
> along the way. The yellow DSMB, by convention rather than rule, is an
alert
> that something is not right and that assistance is desired.
>
> Lee


You've been paying attention, haven't you?

Lee, it is now time. Book that 'plane ticket. We'll be waiting...

CAS
--
Temperature @ Stoney? Find it or share it @
http://stoneytemps.calumscott.me.uk/

"Nigel Hewitt" <nigelh@REMOVETHISnigelhewitt.net> wrote in message
news:c06fo7$i02$1@sparta.btinternet.com

> The red gets to go on most UK dives and gets used on at least half
> of them so auto is a bonus. However even auto-inflates don't always
> auto0-inflate so you need to be used to filling it manually.

Which is why I choose to stick to manual inflate (apart from the
difficulty of cleanly stowing those enormous self inflate things) - a
simple, reliable technique, practiced to slickness; rather than being in
the position of having to use a rusty skill to backup a piece of kit.

> I have
> memories of Huw holding onto one of my fins on the M2 (thanks)

My pleasure!

> as I
> sorted out a blob with just a little air in it and a stripped thread on the filler.

A <whisper>DIR</whisper> technique that works extremely well (but that
I'm still getting on top of) is a) to not fill the blob any more than
necessary, and b) to be fully horizontal while inflating - this gives
you the option of swimming down if you need a moment to sort anything
out with yer blob and spool, meaning you can take everything at a more
relaxed pace.

Cheers,
Huw
--
http://www.huwporter.com


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"Nick Bown" <nbown@nospamthanks.ixcg.com> wrote in message
news:40274fe2$0$29997$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk.. .

> Just out of interest, TDI state that you should use a yellow blob for
normal
> use and an orange one for an emergency (well, in the deco procedures
manual I
> have days that anyway, not sure if its been changed since).
>
> Nick

If true, that says a whole lot about TDI!

As for the yellow blob debate. its something thats evolved... but.. ANY
yellow should be treated as a problem and either gassed, or have a diver
chucked on it.

/Z

Zak <Zak@nospam.cruelmail.com> wrote:
>
> If true, that says a whole lot about TDI!

I'd disagree there; I think it says more about how different divers and their
diving techniques are rather than an agencies training methods. I've found
TDI to be pretty good in general and they are very much "use your head"
rather than "do it this way" when it comes to most things.

>
> As for the yellow blob debate. its something thats evolved... but.. ANY
> yellow should be treated as a problem and either gassed, or have a diver
> chucked on it.
>

I agree that yellow means a problem but I'm not sure I'd welcome a cylinder
on the head (and possibly deprive another diver who really need the gas)
because I have lost/ripped my orange blob

Nick