Stoney Cove Incident

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/3510981.stm

"John Hamm" <meteor@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:bg2h30h93b9htnse1c88g1df66na5bt67j@4ax.com...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/3510981.stm
I hope the divers make a full recovery, from the brief report it
sounds as through the rescue divers did a fair job.
Although I've never dived there, it is obviously a very
popular dive spot, so my question is there no
recompression chamber there ? If not is there a good
reason, it would seem to a onlooker that a place as popular
as this should at least have an emergency chamber.
Just my 2 pence worth.
Richard

> I hope the divers make a full recovery, from the brief report it
> sounds as through the rescue divers did a fair job.
> Although I've never dived there, it is obviously a very
> popular dive spot, so my question is there no
> recompression chamber there ? If not is there a good
> reason, it would seem to a onlooker that a place as popular
> as this should at least have an emergency chamber.

From my understanding they just don't have the resources to run a chamber
anymore - too many regulations, requirements etc from the HSE.

We were at Stoney yesterday, and I have to say that looked to be the worst
incident i've seen there. Its the first time I think i've ever seen search
divers sent out for a lost buddy, but the staff as usual responded very
quickly and managed the rescue as well as they could - boat was out quickly
as usual, and the shop had full cylinders ready to lend to us for rescue
dives as ours were being filled. Unfortunatley the woman inparticular
looked in a very bad way, and from the quiet around the site its obvious how
other divers are affected by incidents like this.

While watching the boat go out though, I was rather concerned at the way
people are diving in Stoney. It picked up the man who was in trouble, but
there were two other people on their own on the surface, over 100m away from
each other, who were nothing to to with the incident, but I wonder why they
were there, on their own? As far as i'm aware solo diving isn't allowed in
Stoney, and apart from anything else the boat had to waste time going and
checking those two people in case they were the lost buddy. With people
diving solo, or just leaving their buddy during a dive then serious
incidents are going to become more and more regular occurences.

David

"richard b" <bonnage@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Kd-dnW1xZp4fAaXdRVn_iw@is.co.za...
>
> "John Hamm" <meteor@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:bg2h30h93b9htnse1c88g1df66na5bt67j@4ax.com...
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/3510981.stm
> I hope the divers make a full recovery, from the brief report it
> sounds as through the rescue divers did a fair job.
> Although I've never dived there, it is obviously a very
> popular dive spot, so my question is there no
> recompression chamber there ? If not is there a good
> reason, it would seem to a onlooker that a place as popular
> as this should at least have an emergency chamber.
> Just my 2 pence worth.
> Richard
>
Well first off, you would need the facility to be staffed, so it would be
prohibitively expensive. You also want a nearby hospital, so the patient
can be monitored and treated as necessary between sessions in the chamber.
A chamber at SC would only be useful for minor cases of DCS - and symptoms
would often not appear well after the last dive, when the sufferer has left
site. It's not as if there are accidents at Stoney every week!
The Great Britain is a small country, and has good emergency medical
services. You are never that far from a chamber - compare the situation
with the US or Australia, for example.

"richard b" <bonnage@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Kd-dnW1xZp4fAaXdRVn_iw@is.co.za...
>
> "John Hamm" <meteor@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:bg2h30h93b9htnse1c88g1df66na5bt67j@4ax.com...
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/3510981.stm
> I hope the divers make a full recovery, from the brief report it
> sounds as through the rescue divers did a fair job.
> Although I've never dived there, it is obviously a very
> popular dive spot, so my question is there no
> recompression chamber there ? If not is there a good
> reason, it would seem to a onlooker that a place as popular
> as this should at least have an emergency chamber.
> Just my 2 pence worth.
> Richard
>
>
I've been training at Stoney recentley and as I understand it they do have
chamber but no one to qualified to run it. In emergencies they fill it with
100% O2 and that's all they can do. The guy that used to be qualified left
and they can't afford/find anyone to fill the post. I'm not to sure how
accurate this is, it's what my instructor told me.

What I do know is the reputation of Stoney Cove saftey procedures and staff
is very good. From the very limited information I've heard of this incident
it seems they were spot on. I hope the divers involved make a full recovery
and keep on diving.

safe diving
Dan.

"Bob Davis" <bob.davis@ntlworldnospam.com> wrote in message
news:%r1_b.18005$ft.1859@newsfe1-win...
>
> "richard b" <bonnage@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Kd-dnW1xZp4fAaXdRVn_iw@is.co.za...
> >
> > "John Hamm" <meteor@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:bg2h30h93b9htnse1c88g1df66na5bt67j@4ax.com...
> > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/3510981.stm
> > I hope the divers make a full recovery, from the brief report it
> > sounds as through the rescue divers did a fair job.
> > Although I've never dived there, it is obviously a very
> > popular dive spot, so my question is there no
> > recompression chamber there ? If not is there a good
> > reason, it would seem to a onlooker that a place as popular
> > as this should at least have an emergency chamber.
> > Just my 2 pence worth.
> > Richard
> >
> Well first off, you would need the facility to be staffed, so it would be
> prohibitively expensive. You also want a nearby hospital, so the patient
> can be monitored and treated as necessary between sessions in the chamber.
> A chamber at SC would only be useful for minor cases of DCS - and symptoms
> would often not appear well after the last dive, when the sufferer has
left
> site. It's not as if there are accidents at Stoney every week!
> The Great Britain is a small country, and has good emergency medical
> services. You are never that far from a chamber - compare the situation
> with the US or Australia, for example.
>
Bob
When I said I thought that the site should have an emergency chamber I
meant the portable type expressly manufactured to be transported by
helicopter. They can be pressurised to 165 FSW and has portable patient and
gas monitoring equipment. It is possible that your regulations require
highly qualified personnel to accompany any victim in such a unit. Here
a person with a paramedic qualification is authorised to use them. I
stay in a 3rd World country but we have 2 such chambers that I know of
near popular dive sites. And one of them is only 60 kms from a
fully equipped medical facility.
Not wanting to split hairs, but in the 1997 paper "Physiology and
Medical Aspects of Scuba Diving" Dr. L. Martin said
"The only effective treatment for DCS (and AGE) is recompression
in a hyperbaric chamber, the sooner the better.
All manifestations of DCS are potentially reversible if the victim can
be quickly recompressed in a chamber. (snip)
Delay in hyperbaric therapy may result in permanent paralysis.
Treatment is recommended even if symptoms abate or clear
before the patient reaches the chamber. This is because bubbles
may still be present in the circulation, and could lead to a more
devastating problem later on. Although altitude can worsen
decompression sickness by lowering ambient pressure and
increasing nitrogen egress from the tissues, time saved by flying
to a chamber generally outweighs the risk." .
In my humble opinion the cost of operating a portable chamber
should be seriously considered by the relative authorities, as even
the shortest delays in recompressing victims may have serious
effects on the prognosis of the DCS. Anyway what do they spend
all that TAX money on.
Cheers Richard

"David Walker" <wbsdavenews@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c1a7ul$559$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk...
> From my understanding they just don't have the resources to run a chamber
> anymore - too many regulations, requirements etc from the HSE.


But they appear to have one at Chepstow so it can't be that hard.

http://www.nationaldivingcentre.com/ bottom of the page.

--
MarkW

nospam to scuba to reply

> In my humble opinion the cost of operating a portable chamber
> should be seriously considered by the relative authorities, as even
> the shortest delays in recompressing victims may have serious
> effects on the prognosis of the DCS. Anyway what do they spend
> all that TAX money on.

The cost to equip a helicopter with a chamber, to have hyperbaric
specialists on a minute's standby at the helicopter site, and to keep that
running would be hugely expensive, and wouldn't be seen as a priority for
the local NHS or whoever. Even if there was one, it would very unlikely
cover Stoney, since if it can get quick enough to Stoney to be faster than
airlifting to another chamber that would be just about its sole use, in
which case it might as well be in Stoney itself.
There are so many stories about why Stoney doesn't use its chamber anymore,
and since I can't remember which is right (it was in their newsletter but I
can't remember what it said) needless to say they can't use their chamber
anymore, and either can't find someone to staff it, or can't afford to
run/staff it anymore. Theres no point people saying they should - they
don't, can't, or won't!

And to the comment about the one in Chepstow, they obviously do have the
facilities to run one - Stoney don't! If you don't like that, go and dive
in the NDC.

The regulations for hyperbaric treatment are there for a reason - even if
you *could* put someone in and recompress them, i'd certainly want a
specialist there if it was me and the support of a medical facility - I
don't believe Stoney's is big enough to get many others inside, or can't let
people in and out without decompressing the whole chamber - if thats the
case, what if the person inside has a problem as they are recompressed?
What would you do, very quickly decompress the chamber to get in the help
they need,....? There are very good reasons that there are safety
regulations! If every munchkin in the country who dives also had his/her
own deco-chamber, I guarantee there'd be far more chamber-induced incidents
than diving ones.

David

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:47:49 +0000, David Walker wrote:

> And to the comment about the one in Chepstow, they obviously do have the
> facilities to run one - Stoney don't! If you don't like that, go and
> dive in the NDC.

It was my understanding that whilst NDC have a chamber, they are only
allowed to use it as a precaution if you've missed stops or on organised
pot dives. I don't think they're allowed to use it to treat you if you
have symptoms.

Jason

--
http://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/ for Aussie diving reports including
Stradbroke Island, Terrigal, Jervis Bay and Portsea

The girl died and her boyfriend is in a serious condition in a chamber in
Hull.
The girl died last night of a lung expansion injury.

May she RIP.

> What I do know is the reputation of Stoney Cove saftey procedures and
staff
> is very good. From the very limited information I've heard of this
incident
> it seems they were spot on. I hope the divers involved make a full
recovery
> and keep on diving.
>
> safe diving
> Dan.
>
>