Re: any thoughts on this choice of UK diving kit!!??

On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:18:10 +0000, blue snorkel
<blue.snorkel.149j7b@forums.deeperblue.net> wrote:

>p.s.... any personal torch or reel recommendations!! Cheers

Large McMahon

--
Pete

news 'at' melbourne 'dot' me 'dot' uk

"Pete Melbourne" <psmvsl@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4eo4701sr13v00ttphj7spkkrghcb7aja2@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:18:10 +0000, blue snorkel
> <blue.snorkel.149j7b@forums.deeperblue.net> wrote:
>
> >p.s.... any personal torch or reel recommendations!! Cheers
>
> Large McMahon
>

Or Small Bodaine

CAS
--
Temperature @ Stoney? Find it or share it @
http://stoneytemps.calumscott.me.uk/
"The measure of a man's wealth is the fewness of his wants" - Jack
Mullholand

> > >p.s.... any personal torch or reel recommendations!! Cheers
> >
> > Large McMahon
> >
>
> Or Small Bodaine
>
diving in low vis ( UK) big reel... or two
diving in good vis (sunny holiday) small spool infact i use my buddy line
3meters plus 2 meters of string if I am doing a safty stop in the blue.

David

Alasdair Allan <aa@ukrecscuba.org.uk> wrote in message
news:c4rari$2lccbc$1@ID-188041.news.uni-berlin.de...
> blue snorkel wrote:
> > I do not plan to make dives of 39 metres or so a very regular habit....
>
> Err, yes, but the "few" times you do dive that deep, what are you going to
> say. "Oh nothing is going to go wrong this time because I dont' dive deep
> often"...? If you are diving to that depth you need the correct kit. A 3L
> pony is insufficient bailout for diving past the low 30m range.
>

Since when?

It might not be the optimum bailout and yes twins would give you shedloads
more
gas and more options, but a pony on a 39m no-deco dive will get you 4-5 mins
@ 39m and even more as you ascend.

Plus you hopefully have the smarts to dive with a buddy that also has
redundancy
and in worse case, at least enough reserve that you dont even need the pony.

TerryH

TerryH wrote:
> Alasdair Allan wrote:
> > blue snorkel wrote:
> > > I do not plan to make dives of 39 metres or so a very regular habit.
> >
> > If you are diving to that depth you need the correct kit. A 3L pony is
> > insufficient bailout for diving past the low 30m range.
>
> Since when?

Since always.

> It might not be the optimum bailout and yes twins would give you shedloads
> more gas and more options, but a pony on a 39m no-deco dive will get you
> 4-5 mins @ 39m and even more as you ascend.

Really? Assuming 25L/min you have (3x200)/(25*4.9)=4.8min, as you say just
under 5 minutes. But 25L/min is very conservative estimate for someone
whose just had to bail out onto a pony bottle, I'd probably want to double
that for gas planning purposes (at least!), you're down to just over 2
minutes at that point. That isn't a long time.

They then have to send up a bag, and make an (somewhat) stressed assent.

Even if they go directly to the surface the assent should(!) take them
around 4 minutes at 10m/min. Even factoring in the reduced gas usage on
assent I don't regard this as a good safety factor, even using your
hopelessly optimistic original estimate for gas usage.

> Plus you hopefully have the smarts to dive with a buddy that also has
> redundancy and in worse case, at least enough reserve that you dont
> even need the pony.

You're going to count on having a buddy around to save your neck? No
thanks, I'd rather have sufficient gas to get out of the shit myself.

A buddy, no matter how good, is no substitute for redundancy.

Al.

Alasdair Allan <aa@ukrecscuba.org.uk> wrote in message
news:c4u44o$2m0dd6$1@ID-188041.news.uni-berlin.de...
> TerryH wrote:
> > Alasdair Allan wrote:
> > > blue snorkel wrote:
> > > > I do not plan to make dives of 39 metres or so a very regular habit.
> > >
> > > If you are diving to that depth you need the correct kit. A 3L pony is
> > > insufficient bailout for diving past the low 30m range.
> >
> > Since when?
>
> Since always.
>
> > It might not be the optimum bailout and yes twins would give you
shedloads
> > more gas and more options, but a pony on a 39m no-deco dive will get you
> > 4-5 mins @ 39m and even more as you ascend.
>
> Really? Assuming 25L/min you have (3x200)/(25*4.9)=4.8min, as you say just
> under 5 minutes. But 25L/min is very conservative estimate for someone
> whose just had to bail out onto a pony bottle, I'd probably want to double
> that for gas planning purposes (at least!), you're down to just over 2
> minutes at that point. That isn't a long time.
>
> They then have to send up a bag, and make an (somewhat) stressed assent.
>
> Even if they go directly to the surface the assent should(!) take them
> around 4 minutes at 10m/min. Even factoring in the reduced gas usage on
> assent I don't regard this as a good safety factor, even using your
> hopelessly optimistic original estimate for gas usage.
>
> > Plus you hopefully have the smarts to dive with a buddy that also has
> > redundancy and in worse case, at least enough reserve that you dont
> > even need the pony.
>
> You're going to count on having a buddy around to save your neck? No
> thanks, I'd rather have sufficient gas to get out of the shit myself.
>
> A buddy, no matter how good, is no substitute for redundancy.
>

Well all the 6x ponies I have here are 232, that gives me an exra gulp over
your
200, but hey what the heck.

While it is true that the pony does not give you that much more than what's
required to make a safe ascent, it does give you enough. If you are talking
additional redundancy then, yes - twins, stages whatever are going to be
better.

However. I live in the real world where I'd rather have a diver on a cheap
pony
then nothing at all. Your not going to stop divers going to 39m on a single,
but at
least with the pony you get enough to do the job.

TerryH

I knocked up a quick and dirtly spreadsheet a while ago, which can be
used to proved either or both Al or Terry right, depending on your
assumptions.

If anyone is too lazy to do it themselves, and wants a copy, let me
know.

David

"Alasdair Allan" <aa@ukrecscuba.org.uk> wrote in message
news:c4u44o$2m0dd6$1@ID-188041.news.uni-berlin.de...
> TerryH wrote:
> > Alasdair Allan wrote:
> > > blue snorkel wrote:
> > > > I do not plan to make dives of 39 metres or so a very regular habit.
> > >
> > > If you are diving to that depth you need the correct kit. A 3L pony is
> > > insufficient bailout for diving past the low 30m range.
> >
> > Since when?
>
> Since always.
>

Come on guys, let's not do this again...

>
> Come on guys, let's not do this again...
>

Yep your absolutley right, lets not. Let's just say that it's up to each
individual to
assess what he/she feels is an adequate reserve/redundancy.

TerryH

> Are you saying you will refuse to go onto a boat
> if there is another diver using just a single cylinder?
> At what point do you check out all the other
> divers kit to check that it meets your requirements?
>

I have refused to dive in a group of three because I think it is an unsafe
practice for three unknown divers to be told to dive as a group. I would
however dive with two others that I already new and in my opinion it was
safe.

where do you draw the line before or after someone gets killed by lack of
training.

David