Halycon BCD: Product Recall on Inflators.

http://www.diving-in-norway.com/foru...php?t=239#1224

May effect some of you?

Best Regards,

/Matt

> May effect some of you?
>

Nothing to do with the inflator (I have an Eclipse with the plastic
buttons), but heres a cautionary Halcyon Eclipse tale:


I was up at Stoney yesterday and someone noticed that one of the wing nuts
connecting the backplate->wing->single tank adaptor looked a bit loose.
After a check, it turned out that not only was that loose, but so was the
other wingnut (hidden by the back pocket), and ALL of the five screw
fittings that hold the wing onto the backplate were loose. Thats right,
five. One had actually disappeared, probably into the drink at some point.

I was pretty dismayed at this, both at my own lack of a pre-dive check to
ensure this wasn't a problem, and then at the actual fittings that are used.
No washers, no locknuts. I don't remember anything in the manual that said
"Your wing system may fall apart underwater over time, make sure you check
the fittings", but this is pretty poor - especially from a pre-built system.

Why aren't they locknuts? I'm replace all of them now with nylon locknuts
just to be sure - but I'm not particularly happy, and will be contacting
Halcyon soon. Meanwhile, if you've got one of these, make sure you give it a
good check before you dive - every time.

Out of interest, does anyone have an Eclipse, and had similar experiences or
not? Do users of other wings find similar problems, or incorporate a check
into their pre-dive drill?


Jeff.

> I was up at Stoney yesterday and someone noticed that one of the wing nuts
> connecting the backplate->wing->single tank adaptor looked a bit loose.
> After a check, it turned out that not only was that loose, but so was the
> other wingnut (hidden by the back pocket), and ALL of the five screw
> fittings that hold the wing onto the backplate were loose. Thats right,
> five. One had actually disappeared, probably into the drink at some point.
>
> I was pretty dismayed at this, both at my own lack of a pre-dive check to
> ensure this wasn't a problem, and then at the actual fittings that are
used.
> No washers, no locknuts. I don't remember anything in the manual that said
> "Your wing system may fall apart underwater over time, make sure you check
> the fittings", but this is pretty poor - especially from a pre-built
system.
>
> Why aren't they locknuts? I'm replace all of them now with nylon locknuts
> just to be sure - but I'm not particularly happy, and will be contacting
> Halcyon soon. Meanwhile, if you've got one of these, make sure you give it
a
> good check before you dive - every time.
>
> Out of interest, does anyone have an Eclipse, and had similar experiences
or
> not? Do users of other wings find similar problems, or incorporate a check
> into their pre-dive drill?
>
I have an Eclipse but you need to change your equipment checks. Nuts and
bolts will come undone webbing will wear and you will use the contents of
your cylinder. Checking them will require different frequency.

My single tank adapter is held on with two washers on each bolt a flat and a
spring washer. They came like it. On a mates wing and plate he had put them
together in the wrong order, have you checked to see if there is a washer
under the wing.

I check my wing nuts the night before I pack my divegear into my dive crate.


David

"Jeff Sheard" <jeff@razorworks.com> wrote in message
news:c97479$lgc$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> > May effect some of you?
>
> I was up at Stoney yesterday and someone noticed that one of the wing nuts
> connecting the backplate->wing->single tank adaptor looked a bit loose.
> After a check, it turned out that not only was that loose, but so was the
> other wingnut (hidden by the back pocket), and ALL of the five screw
> fittings that hold the wing onto the backplate were loose. Thats right,
> five. One had actually disappeared, probably into the drink at some point.

Five screw fittings hold the wing onto the backplate? That's a new one on
me - my Eclipse is held together by two bolts on the STA that thread through
the wing and the backplate and are held secure by a pair of wing nuts with
*two* washers, one of which is a spring washer. Are you sure you're not
referring to the bolts that hold the Storage Pak to the backplate? If so,
one of those being loose is hardly life threatening!

> I was pretty dismayed at this, both at my own lack of a pre-dive check to
> ensure this wasn't a problem, and then at the actual fittings that are
used.
> No washers, no locknuts. I don't remember anything in the manual that said
> "Your wing system may fall apart underwater over time, make sure you check
> the fittings", but this is pretty poor - especially from a pre-built
system.

Er... it's not a prebuilt system. The Eclipse is delivered as separate parts
which you assemble upon delivery. Although it's not neccessary to
disassemble the rig after each dive like the equivelent twinset rig, your
predive checks should be expanded to cater for the peculiarities of the
diving system you're using - just as you would if you were diving on a
rebreather, for example.

> Why aren't they locknuts? I'm replace all of them now with nylon locknuts
> just to be sure - but I'm not particularly happy, and will be contacting
> Halcyon soon. Meanwhile, if you've got one of these, make sure you give it
a
> good check before you dive - every time.

I'm sure Halcyon will merely suggest that you expand your predive checks to
cater for the equipment you're using - just because it's not included in the
PADI BWRAF doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It's called thinking outside
the box, you know...

> Out of interest, does anyone have an Eclipse, and had similar experiences
or
> not? Do users of other wings find similar problems, or incorporate a check
> into their pre-dive drill?

Personally I've never found it a problem. My Eclipse served me flawlessly
last week out in Lanzarote and turned more than a couple of the dive guides
green with envy! Well, those that knew anything about dive gear, that is...

On Fri, 28 May 2004 23:42:54 +0100, "Bardo" <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>
>"Jeff Sheard" <jeff@razorworks.com> wrote in message
>news:c97479$lgc$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
>> > May effect some of you?
>>
>> I was up at Stoney yesterday and someone noticed that one of the wing nuts
>> connecting the backplate->wing->single tank adaptor looked a bit loose.
>> After a check, it turned out that not only was that loose, but so was the
>> other wingnut (hidden by the back pocket), and ALL of the five screw
>> fittings that hold the wing onto the backplate were loose. Thats right,
>> five. One had actually disappeared, probably into the drink at some point.
>
>Five screw fittings hold the wing onto the backplate? That's a new one on
>me - my Eclipse is held together by two bolts on the STA that thread through
>the wing and the backplate and are held secure by a pair of wing nuts with
>*two* washers, one of which is a spring washer. Are you sure you're not
>referring to the bolts that hold the Storage Pak to the backplate? If so,
>one of those being loose is hardly life threatening!
>
>> I was pretty dismayed at this, both at my own lack of a pre-dive check to
>> ensure this wasn't a problem, and then at the actual fittings that are
>used.
>> No washers, no locknuts. I don't remember anything in the manual that said
>> "Your wing system may fall apart underwater over time, make sure you check
>> the fittings", but this is pretty poor - especially from a pre-built
>system.
>
>Er... it's not a prebuilt system. The Eclipse is delivered as separate parts
>which you assemble upon delivery. Although it's not neccessary to
>disassemble the rig after each dive like the equivelent twinset rig, your
>predive checks should be expanded to cater for the peculiarities of the
>diving system you're using - just as you would if you were diving on a
>rebreather, for example.
>
>> Why aren't they locknuts? I'm replace all of them now with nylon locknuts
>> just to be sure - but I'm not particularly happy, and will be contacting
>> Halcyon soon. Meanwhile, if you've got one of these, make sure you give it
>a
>> good check before you dive - every time.
>
>I'm sure Halcyon will merely suggest that you expand your predive checks to
>cater for the equipment you're using - just because it's not included in the
>PADI BWRAF doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It's called thinking outside
>the box, you know...
>
>> Out of interest, does anyone have an Eclipse, and had similar experiences
>or
>> not? Do users of other wings find similar problems, or incorporate a check
>> into their pre-dive drill?
>
>Personally I've never found it a problem. My Eclipse served me flawlessly
>last week out in Lanzarote and turned more than a couple of the dive guides
>green with envy! Well, those that knew anything about dive gear, that is...
>
>

Second all of what Bardo says - I had a wingnut work loose on my
eclipse once - felt it slopping toward the end of the dive. was ok
though and no problem.

Now i check the wingnuts before each dive and i assemble/dissasemble
my Eclipse rig every dives session - no more problems

also - do check those 2 washers - once i had mine the right way round
its all hunky dory.

my only gripe is the webbing which does seem to fray very early on but
im going to put some 50mm inner tube on the webbing at the backplate
attachment points to stop it - got that tip from another eclipse user.

all in all a good product imho :o)

Ah, seems I got a little carried away:

>Five screw fittings hold the wing onto the backplate? That's a new one on
>me
>

You're right, they're the one's holding the storage pak on, and agreed
hardly life threatening. Having now looked after I leapt, there are indeed
spring washers and standard washers at each wingnut position.


>Er... it's not a prebuilt system. The Eclipse is delivered as separate
parts
>which you assemble upon delivery.

It often is if you buy it at a dive show. And if you've only changed the
webbing configuration (like me), you still haven't played with the way the
plate->wing->sta are put together.


> I'm sure Halcyon will merely suggest that you expand your predive checks
to
> cater for the equipment you're using -

Which seems to be the message here also... and a sensible one! I think the
fact that one of the wingnuts was loose, and that the other was "hidden"
under the storage pak and hence it's state was unknown was more of a worry -
definitely something I'll check every dive now. It really wasn't an
impossibility that the whole lot could've come apart underwater.


I'm still not sure about the choice of wingnuts though - I mean how often do
you want to take it apart? I guess if you alternate twinset and single tank
a lot maybe, but is that likely? They could've gotten away with shorter
threads and used locknuts for a more secure attachment. I guess I'm free to
do that myself! However, the screw type fittings for the storage pak do bug
me a bit, they're just not that secure. Ok, not life threatening, but it'd
be good if they were a bit tighter, I might not have lost one!

Thanks to all for pointing out my kit naivity - I'll try to be a bit more
careful about checking stuff before I open my trap, but at least I got some
useful suggestions!

Oh, and I do still like the Eclipse, a lot! :)


Jeff.

"Jeff Sheard" <jeff@razorworks.com> wrote in message
news:c9hdvq$9jr$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> Ah, seems I got a little carried away:
>
> >Five screw fittings hold the wing onto the backplate? That's a new one on
> >me
> >
>
> You're right, they're the one's holding the storage pak on, and agreed
> hardly life threatening. Having now looked after I leapt, there are indeed
> spring washers and standard washers at each wingnut position.
>
>
> >Er... it's not a prebuilt system. The Eclipse is delivered as separate
> parts
> >which you assemble upon delivery.
>
> It often is if you buy it at a dive show. And if you've only changed the
> webbing configuration (like me), you still haven't played with the way the
> plate->wing->sta are put together.
>
>
> > I'm sure Halcyon will merely suggest that you expand your predive checks
> to
> > cater for the equipment you're using -
>
> Which seems to be the message here also... and a sensible one! I think the
> fact that one of the wingnuts was loose, and that the other was "hidden"
> under the storage pak and hence it's state was unknown was more of a
worry -
> definitely something I'll check every dive now. It really wasn't an
> impossibility that the whole lot could've come apart underwater.
>
>
> I'm still not sure about the choice of wingnuts though - I mean how often
do
> you want to take it apart? I guess if you alternate twinset and single
tank
> a lot maybe, but is that likely? They could've gotten away with shorter
> threads and used locknuts for a more secure attachment. I guess I'm free
to
> do that myself! However, the screw type fittings for the storage pak do
bug
> me a bit, they're just not that secure. Ok, not life threatening, but it'd
> be good if they were a bit tighter, I might not have lost one!
>
> Thanks to all for pointing out my kit naivity - I'll try to be a bit more
> careful about checking stuff before I open my trap, but at least I got
some
> useful suggestions!
>
> Oh, and I do still like the Eclipse, a lot! :)
>
>
> Jeff.
>
me too Jeff i think its a great bit of kit. just the price of it is very
off putting. But then Diving is not cheap.

David

> I'm still not sure about the choice of wingnuts though - I mean how often
do
> you want to take it apart? I guess if you alternate twinset and single
tank
> a lot maybe, but is that likely? They could've gotten away with shorter
> threads and used locknuts for a more secure attachment. I guess I'm free
to
> do that myself!

Halcyon designed the plates, adapters and wings to be easy to change because
they believe in optimal equipment for all diving. Choices range from an 18
lb lift wing and single tank adapter like I use for almost all of my diving,
to twin tanks with a somewhat higher lift wing, to twins, stages, towed
scooters etc. and a wing with enough lift to raise a sunken ship. Keep in
mind that Halcyon is in Florida, where most people dive singles, some
technical divers use doubles and stages and some cave divers are set up to
travel miles underground and water. It's also a state where most diving is
done with little or no thermal protection, a wide variety of wetsuits are
used and where the cavers all have drysuits. Flexibility is important here.
It's important there too, but, perhaps not needed quite as often. If you
dive one way almost all the time, there's no reason not to switch to the
fasteners of your choice.

> wever, the screw type fittings for the storage pak do bug
> me a bit, they're just not that secure. Ok, not life threatening, but it'd
> be good if they were a bit tighter, I might not have lost one!

I've never had the problem you are experiencing. When my plates were new,
the plastic connectors were pretty good. Subsequent ones broke frequently
and, if I"m not mistaken, Halcyon went to metal ones. If yours are plastic,
you might check to see if they are willing to help you out. Like I said,
they're pretty good on service even when they didn't do their up front
quality assurance. If you've got the metal ones or want to stick with the
plastic, try a bit of locktite or a similar product intended to prevent
things from coming loose.

> Thanks to all for pointing out my kit naivity - I'll try to be a bit more
> careful about checking stuff before I open my trap, but at least I got
some
> useful suggestions!

Thanks for being so open in admitting your own mistakes. It's a refreshing
change from many newsgroups.

Lee

"Jeff Sheard" <jeff@razorworks.com> wrote in message
news:c9hdvq$9jr$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> Ah, seems I got a little carried away:
>
> Thanks to all for pointing out my kit naivity - I'll try to be a bit more
> careful about checking stuff before I open my trap, but at least I got
some
> useful suggestions!
>
> Oh, and I do still like the Eclipse, a lot! :)

Got to agree with you there mate! I've got both an Explorer with a stainless
steel backplate and an Eclipse with an aluminium backplate and I love them
both! Definately a cut above the rest...