Unfamiliarity with equipment may have contributed to Alaska diver's death

Unfamiliarity with equipment may have contributed to Alaska diver's death

http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s031031a/s031031a.html

On 1 Nov 2003 04:26:09 -0600, "Dive News" <always@on.topic.always>
wrote:

>
>
>Unfamiliarity with equipment may have contributed to Alaska diver's death
>
>http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s031031a/s031031a.html


Once again an experienced diver kicks the bucket because he could not
ditch his weights. What's so fu*king difficult about dumping weights
and swimming to the surface from 35 feet?

Slow Death wrote:
> On 1 Nov 2003 04:26:09 -0600, "Dive News" <always@on.topic.always>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Unfamiliarity with equipment may have contributed to Alaska diver's death
>>
>>http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s031031a/s031031a.html
>
>
>
> Once again an experienced diver kicks the bucket because he could not
> ditch his weights. What's so fu*king difficult about dumping weights
> and swimming to the surface from 35 feet?

Especially 50 pounds of weights!

"Slow Death" <123@bioforus.uv> wrote in message
news:69270846e8d8ee5dd5a663783696b229@news.teranew s.com...
> On 1 Nov 2003 04:26:09 -0600, "Dive News" <always@on.topic.always>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Unfamiliarity with equipment may have contributed to Alaska diver's death
> >
> >http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s031031a/s031031a.html
>
>
> Once again an experienced diver kicks the bucket because he could not
> ditch his weights. What's so fu*king difficult about dumping weights
> and swimming to the surface from 35 feet?

Adrenalin, thats whats difficult.

Its gets all of us in different ways and with all the training in the world,
you cant plan for how the rush will hit you. Recent inquests, St Abbs and
Fort William, have shown that trained divers who get into difficulty,
sometimes dont do as they are trained.

Personally speaking I've not been in a serious situation diving (A couple of
freeflows and an entrapment) but in my line of work I have been trained in
how to deal with an armed raid. This involved mock ups and having knives
and unloaded guns pointed at me in a controlled environment. There is no
adrenelin rush in this situation, excitment yes, but fear of death no.

A year after this training took place, I was involved in an armed raid which
involved a pistol being aimed directly at me in 20 feet in front of me by a
14 year kid, in the space of 2 seconds I'd gone from going about my everyday
job to realising I'm very close to death and every action I do from here on
in, my life, and those of my staff depend on it. This wasn't a rush like
parachuting, bungee jumping, motorbiking or whatever, this was a life or
death situation. It like your first dive, jump, orgasm, all in one go and
then amplified 1000 times. You feel every heartbeat as if your heart is a
V12 engine in your chest, your limbs are ten times their weight, and your
blood feels 5 times its normal temperature. Forget about breathing, thats
an involuntary action that up until now you never thought about, then all of
the sudden you realise that you need to breathe and force your lungs open.
Thats all you think about for what seems like hours, but it is in fact micro
seconds. Then you react, some react as per training, do as the situation
dictates, the enemy is the dangerous animal, you are the hunted, you do as
they say. I can talk about from experience now.

Then there are ones who react with their instincts, to counter react or do
something completely irrational, these are normally the ones who currently
have an epitath six feet above their heads. Its not their fault, its not
the trainings fault, its natures fault for making us all different.

I have friends who have personal involvement with an underwater death. The
man they failed to resusitate was a man of good intelligence, who was a
trained, qualified and experienced diver who didn't react to a problem as he
was trained (his BC hose was unconnected at the surface). This man was also
GP who had saved many lives and helped hundreds of people live a better or
longer life than nature intended.

Next time you find yourself, a loved one or a friend, being dragged out of
the water, just remember those who are trained to keep you alive, and
experience adrenalin rushes similar to those I speak of, whilst performing
CPR etc.

Whats so f**king difficult about that then?


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"Splosh Junkie" <diver@whsmithnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3fa4ef5e_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>...
> "Slow Death" <123@bioforus.uv> wrote in message
> news:69270846e8d8ee5dd5a663783696b229@news.teranew s.com...
> > On 1 Nov 2003 04:26:09 -0600, "Dive News" <always@on.topic.always>
> > wrote:
> > >Unfamiliarity with equipment may have contributed to Alaska diver's death
> > >
> > >http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s031031a/s031031a.html
> > >
> > Once again an experienced diver kicks the bucket because he could not
> > ditch his weights. What's so fu*king difficult about dumping weights
> > and swimming to the surface from 35 feet?
>
> Adrenalin, thats whats difficult.
>
> Its gets all of us in different ways and with all the training in the world,
> you cant plan for how the rush will hit you. Recent inquests, St Abbs and
> Fort William, have shown that trained divers who get into difficulty,
> sometimes dont do as they are trained.

SNIPPED the middle of a great post...
>
> Next time you find yourself, a loved one or a friend, being dragged out of
> the water, just remember those who are trained to keep you alive, and
> experience adrenalin rushes similar to those I speak of, whilst performing
> CPR etc.
>
> Whats so f**king difficult about that then?

Great post! It's very helpful to hear some refreshingly honest and
humble insight based on real experience, and without posturing and
pretense. Thanks.

A humble respect for the power of adrenalin leads me to believe that
the same thing could happen to me. It's a "fight or flight" response,
not a "think" response. Trained behaviors don't always get activated.

I got smartened up once on a solo dive 80 feet down in reduced vis,
scalloping at a fevered pace and finning so hard that my heart and
lungs were screaming, when a drifting plastic bag suddenly wrapped
itself around my face. It was a bug-eyed moment of terror that could
have easily led to panic. Since then, I stay a little further away
from the panic threshold by keeping well within my cardiovascular
limits.

I would offer my sympathy and condolences to those involved in that
Alaska dive accident rather than a verdict of incompetence.

Dave C

> Great post! It's very helpful to hear some refreshingly honest and
> humble insight based on real experience, and without posturing and
> pretense. Thanks.
>
> A humble respect for the power of adrenalin leads me to believe that
> the same thing could happen to me. It's a "fight or flight" response,
> not a "think" response. Trained behaviors don't always get activated.
>
> I got smartened up once on a solo dive 80 feet down in reduced vis,
> scalloping at a fevered pace and finning so hard that my heart and
> lungs were screaming, when a drifting plastic bag suddenly wrapped
> itself around my face. It was a bug-eyed moment of terror that could
> have easily led to panic. Since then, I stay a little further away
> from the panic threshold by keeping well within my cardiovascular
> limits.
>
> I would offer my sympathy and condolences to those involved in that
> Alaska dive accident rather than a verdict of incompetence.
>
> Dave C

Or how about best laid plans of men and mice....

translation: shit happens.

Or Sorry for your loss.

translation: I'm not an ass who knows fuck all and I'm considerate of others
feelings


Toto

ok, stupid human diver toss the ball...
bye

"Slow Death" <123@bioforus.uv> wrote in message
news:69270846e8d8ee5dd5a663783696b229@news.teranew s.com...
> On 1 Nov 2003 04:26:09 -0600, "Dive News" <always@on.topic.always>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Unfamiliarity with equipment may have contributed to Alaska diver's death
> >
> >http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s031031a/s031031a.html
>
>
> Once again an experienced diver kicks the bucket because he could not
> ditch his weights. What's so fu*king difficult about dumping weights
> and swimming to the surface from 35 feet?

There are any number of reasons it may happen.
The longer post here pointed out that it takes a lot of training to do it
without thinking.
Divers don't get enough practice in doing this, even with soft weights and
in the old days it was at best simulated because messing up the bottom of
the pool was a no- no.
There is also the cost of the weight belt. No this should not be a
consideration but you hear it a *lot* in classes and shops and it enters
into the equation.
If the diver decided to go against what all the agencies have taught since
at least 1968 and put the weight belt under something it adds to the
problem. If the diver *did* have enough training with it outside and did not
retrain it would probably be fatal.

The California Highway Patrol was among the first to realize that most
firefights took place at about 21 feet. They developed a training program
which included 12 rounds in 20 seconds.
Fire six, eject, reload, fire six.
But they were concerned about money.
So the training went fire six, eject the rounds into the palm of the hand,
place them in a container, reload, fire six.

They modified this when officers in the field did exactly as trained under a
real situation. Fire six, EJECT THE ROUNDS INTO THE PALM OF YOUR HAND, then
stand there and get hit because you had no place to put the valuable
cartridges and had a hard time dropping them.

After a few incidents they started "wasting" the brass.

Toto wrote:
>
> Or how about best laid plans of men and mice....
>
> translation: shit happens.
>
> Or Sorry for your loss.
>
> translation: I'm not an ass who knows fuck all and I'm considerate of others
> feelings
>
>
> Toto
>
> ok, stupid human diver toss the ball...
> bye
>
>
>

you are possibly the dumest SOB i'v ever had the displeasure of finding
on usenet. *PLONK*

>
> Next time you find yourself, a loved one or a friend, being dragged out
of
> the water, just remember those who are trained to keep you alive, and
> experience adrenalin rushes similar to those I speak of, whilst performing
> CPR etc.
>
> Whats so f**king difficult about that then?
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 23/09/03
>
>
I totally agree.
I have found myself many times after a " shout" to be totally exhausted at
the end of it.

You do try and react/respond as you are trained, but the real life scenario
is different to all the practice that you do.

A resus annie/casualty union "patient" will not die if you F**k up.

All you can do is react as you think correct at the time.

After a real incident you are physically/mental exhausted.
You need time to recover.
You need time to reflect.
You need support whether it was successful or not.

"to err is human..."

Please give some thought for those of us who have to act in these
situations.
We do have to go home at the end of the day and "act normally".

Paul, sorry but a bad w/e on call...

"James Connell" <jconnell@gci.net> wrote in message
news:vqajh0j952fv9b@corp.supernews.com...
> Toto wrote:
> >
> > Or how about best laid plans of men and mice....
> >
> > translation: shit happens.
> >
> > Or Sorry for your loss.
> >
> > translation: I'm not an ass who knows fuck all and I'm considerate of
others
> > feelings
> >
> >
> > Toto
> >
> > ok, stupid human diver toss the ball...
> > bye
> >
> >
> >
>
> you are possibly the dumest SOB i'v ever had the displeasure of finding
> on usenet. *PLONK*

Your such an expert.
How many ffm dives on a hose have you done?
In extreme cold water?
In current?
With out fins.
How do you know the mask didn't get pulled and flooded, he was dealing with
a snagged hose in current.
If the people there don't know.
Your fucking clairvoyant?
Or
You do not know what the fuck your talking about.

I thought so...

I'll give you the short version.

Shit happens, he failed to correct the situation in time.
He drowned.

*PLONK*

WTF is that Your brain falling in the toilet while you take a piss.

We lost a highly trained police diver in a similar type dive recovering a
child a few years back.
Hoses / safety lines in current are not to be played with.

Then neither where sport divers.

Rec.scuba


Toto

don't step in anything on the way out