Re: Thousands stage anti-war protest

"Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer" wrote

> Several thousand protesters have taken part in a demonstration in central
> London against the conflict in Iraq.

We suggest they all be transported to Iraq to address their concerns
directly.

"Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:SEHZe.4190$QE1.1002@newsread2.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> "Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer" wrote
>
>> Several thousand protesters have taken part in a demonstration in central
>> London against the conflict in Iraq.
>
> We suggest they all be transported to Iraq to address their concerns
> directly.

Why? Being a democracy with a right to free speech, you'd think they'd want
to exercise their constitutional rights right at home.

But I have no problem with all the gun nuts taking their guns to Iraq to
shoot them in the air over there.

"Greg Mossman" wrote

>>> Several thousand protesters have taken part in a demonstration in
>>> central
>>> London against the conflict in Iraq.

>> We suggest they all be transported to Iraq to address their concerns
>> directly.

> Why? Being a democracy with a right to free speech, you'd think they'd
> want to exercise their constitutional rights right at home.

Because being present, personally, to understand and address issues you are
concerned with is so much more effective than complaining about it from a
distance.

> But I have no problem with all the gun nuts taking their guns to Iraq to
> shoot them in the air over there.

To hear the Brady bunch talk, that's already happening, well, sort of.
Since Florida passed a law that does not require you to run away before
defending your rights, they are publishing propaganda about how dangerous us
it to come to Florida. It seems the Brady bunch thinks that tourists will
be targets. I guess they think the majority of tourists are home and
business invaders, that they will be aggressive and forceful enough to meet
the definition of meeting force with force. That seems to help explain the
incredible number of tourists we get each year. They're flocking to the
state where they are most free to use their firearms.

Never mind that Florida has the lowest violent crime rate we've experienced
in 31 years (I think that was the number). How's the crime rate doing in
California?

The gun nuts are clearly afraid of violence, at least that seems to be the
perception of the anti gun faction. To hear people like you talk, that's
the only rational reason they keep and bear arms. It's unfair to send
people who are afraid into harms way. I violates their right to pursue
happiness. Instead, we should send those that are unafraid, those that are
so sure that they are safe from all possibility of harm, that they chose to
disarm themselves and their neighbors. They are the ones who should go to
Iraq. The impact on their lives is so much less, in their rational
knowledge that there is no risk worth arming themselves for, there are fewer
constitutional issues and think of all the money the US could save by not
having to arm them. Hell, we could fund benefits for illegal immigrants, no
sweat.

Lee

"Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:lVQZe.4326$QE1.2653@newsread2.news.atl.earthl ink.net...

> Because being present, personally, to understand and address issues you
are
> concerned with is so much more effective than complaining about it from a
> distance.

Just a little background;

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/printme.php?eid=39605

http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000248.php

http://www.workers.org/ww/2003/oct250731.php

Now all the nutjobs have Cindy Sheehan for a prop.

"Dennis (Icarus)" <nojunkmail@ever.invalid> wrote in message
news:bc8ed$4337ee1b$18d64cf6$4491@KNOLOGY.NET...
> "Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:imRZe.38$rx4.42@news.uswest.net...
> > "Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > news:lVQZe.4326$QE1.2653@newsread2.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
> >
> > > Because being present, personally, to understand and address issues
you
> > are
> > > concerned with is so much more effective than complaining about it
from
> a
> > > distance.
> >
> > Just a little background;
> >
> > http://www.laweekly.com/ink/printme.php?eid=39605
> >
> > http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000248.php
> >
> > http://www.workers.org/ww/2003/oct250731.php
> >
> > Now all the nutjobs have Cindy Sheehan for a prop.
> >
> >
>
> The nutahedeen?

Perfect.

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003610.htm

"Scott" <pugetsounddiver@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:imRZe.38$rx4.42@news.uswest.net...
> "Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:lVQZe.4326$QE1.2653@newsread2.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
>
> > Because being present, personally, to understand and address issues you
> are
> > concerned with is so much more effective than complaining about it from
a
> > distance.
>
> Just a little background;
>
> http://www.laweekly.com/ink/printme.php?eid=39605
>
> http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000248.php
>
> http://www.workers.org/ww/2003/oct250731.php
>
> Now all the nutjobs have Cindy Sheehan for a prop.
>
>

The nutahedeen?

Dennis

"BarryNL" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:4338106f$0$11064$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> BarryNL wrote:
>> Lee Bell wrote:
>>
>>> "Greg Mossman" wrote
>>>
>>> The gun nuts are clearly afraid of violence, at least that seems to be
>>> the perception of the anti gun faction. To hear people like you talk,
>>> that's the only rational reason they keep and bear arms. It's unfair to
>>> send people who are afraid into harms way.
>>
>>
>> Out of interest (and I don't know the answer to this though I would bet
>> money) do more gun owners or non-gun owners end up getting shot?
>
> Ah, here we go...
>
> A gun in the home increases the risk of homicide of a household member by
> 3 times and the risk of suicide by 5 times compared to homes where no gun
> is present.
>
> -Kellerman AL, Rivara FP, Somes G, et al. "Suicide in the Home in Relation
> to Gun Ownership." NEJM. 1992; 327(7):467-472)

Flat lies and propaganda.

Anti-gun hysterics, that the liberal middle class thrive on.


>
> I guess it's gun owners who aren't afraid of being shot, or they wouldn't
> own guns!
>
>> > I violates their right to pursue
>>
>>> happiness. Instead, we should send those that are unafraid, those that
>>> are so sure that they are safe from all possibility of harm, that they
>>> chose to disarm themselves and their neighbors. They are the ones who
>>> should go to Iraq. The impact on their lives is so much less, in their
>>> rational knowledge that there is no risk worth arming themselves for,
>>> there are fewer constitutional issues and think of all the money the US
>>> could save by not having to arm them. Hell, we could fund benefits for
>>> illegal immigrants, no sweat.
>>>
>>> Lee
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> "If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from
> him. An investment in Knowledge always pays the best Interest." - Benjamin
> Franklin

BarryNL wrote:
> Lee Bell wrote:
>
>> "Greg Mossman" wrote
>>
>> The gun nuts are clearly afraid of violence, at least that seems to be
>> the perception of the anti gun faction. To hear people like you talk,
>> that's the only rational reason they keep and bear arms. It's unfair
>> to send people who are afraid into harms way.
>
>
> Out of interest (and I don't know the answer to this though I would bet
> money) do more gun owners or non-gun owners end up getting shot?

Ah, here we go...

A gun in the home increases the risk of homicide of a household member
by 3 times and the risk of suicide by 5 times compared to homes where no
gun is present.

-Kellerman AL, Rivara FP, Somes G, et al. "Suicide in the Home in
Relation to Gun Ownership." NEJM. 1992; 327(7):467-472)

I guess it's gun owners who aren't afraid of being shot, or they
wouldn't own guns!

> > I violates their right to pursue
>
>> happiness. Instead, we should send those that are unafraid, those
>> that are so sure that they are safe from all possibility of harm, that
>> they chose to disarm themselves and their neighbors. They are the
>> ones who should go to Iraq. The impact on their lives is so much
>> less, in their rational knowledge that there is no risk worth arming
>> themselves for, there are fewer constitutional issues and think of all
>> the money the US could save by not having to arm them. Hell, we could
>> fund benefits for illegal immigrants, no sweat.
>>
>> Lee
>>
>
>


--
"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from
him. An investment in Knowledge always pays the best Interest." -
Benjamin Franklin

"BarryNL" wrote

>> Out of interest (and I don't know the answer to this though I would bet
>> money) do more gun owners or non-gun owners end up getting shot?
>
> Ah, here we go...
>
> A gun in the home increases the risk of homicide of a household member by
> 3 times and the risk of suicide by 5 times compared to homes where no gun
> is present.
>
> -Kellerman AL, Rivara FP, Somes G, et al. "Suicide in the Home in Relation
> to Gun Ownership." NEJM. 1992; 327(7):467-472)

Interesting data. You quote homicide rates from an article on suicide. Had
you asked whether more people kill themselves with guns in homes that have
guns or homes that don't, we could have answered more accurately.

What I can tell you is that there has been a gun in my home since before I
was born. I've had a gun of my own since I was 6. That's 57 years of
exposure to guns and 51 years of owning them myself. Nobody in my home,
living in my home, or who has ever lived in my home, has been shot.

> I guess it's gun owners who aren't afraid of being shot, or they wouldn't
> own guns!

Glad you identified it as a guess, because that's all it is. It's also
wrong.

Lee

"Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:lVQZe.4326$QE1.2653@newsread2.news.atl.earthl ink.net...

> To hear the Brady bunch talk, that's already happening, well, sort of.
> Since Florida passed a law that does not require you to run away before
> defending your rights, they are publishing propaganda about how dangerous
> us it to come to Florida.

And here I thought Florida was dangerous because you have multiple hurricans
in a year, the most lightning of any other state, and alligators walking
around everywhere.

> It seems the Brady bunch thinks that tourists will be targets. I guess
> they think the majority of tourists are home and business invaders, that
> they will be aggressive and forceful enough to meet the definition of
> meeting force with force. That seems to help explain the incredible
> number of tourists we get each year. They're flocking to the state where
> they are most free to use their firearms.

If you like Canadians coming down and shooting up the place, so be it. In
California, we've banned Canadians and our crime rates has been drastically
lowered as a direct result.

> Never mind that Florida has the lowest violent crime rate we've
> experienced in 31 years (I think that was the number). How's the crime
> rate doing in California?

We lawyers learn early on to never ask a question when you don't already
know the answer. I guess they don't teach that mantra in Government Service
101. You're not going to like the answer.

Simply, California's crime rate drop is identical to that of Florida, which
should show you how irrelevant your guns are to violent crime. As anyone
knows, the drop in violent crime is a direct result of increased policing
and due to socioeconomic factors nationwide.

Here's Florida:

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/FSAC/CRI...lent/index.asp

That's 706.2 per 100,000 for 2004.

Here's California:

http://ag.ca.gov/cjsc/publications/a.../ad04/ad04.pdf

Note that the downward sloping curve is identical over the years covered by
the Florida chart.

Even better, on the next page, you can look up our violent crime rate: only
539.6 per 100,000 for 2004. By my math, 539.6 is much less than 706.2. We
only have 76% of the crime that Florida suffers.

That's why you should always know the answer in advance. You get less egg
on your face that way.

Clearly, California's stringent gun control measures have made California a
much safer place to be even without factoring in the hurricane and gators.
Live your life on the edge if you want, Lee; I'll stay here on the west
coast where I don't have to nail boards over my windows and sit up all night
facing the front door with my shotgun at the ready.