Divers who like to take photos and videos

Just had to get this off my chest...

Recently returned from 1 week in Layang Layang and 1 week in Sipadan Water
Village. During the week at Layang Layang I was "fortunate" (and I use the
term very, very loosely) enough to dive with a group of Italian divers who
claimed to be a "Photographic Society", all male. I have never seen so many
overweighted, destructive, selfish divers in my life. These guys were only
interested in getting the shots they wanted and to hell with the rest of the
reef. On the first day I was "lucky" enough to witness wanton reef
destruction, the group's apparent leader actually kicked a ball of hard
coral the size of a basketball off it's stem. When I asked the DM about the
group, he said he had already spoken with them (obviously to no avail). I
couldn't hold my tongue and told the reef-kicker what I had witnessed and he
had the audacity to deny he did it. The next day, he actually was walking
on a plate coral to catch his footing while filming something else. Later,
I overheard one of the other men say that no one owns the reef so it
shouldn't matter what happens to it. What an obviously selfish attitude! I
was so distraught from what I witnessed, I couldn't watch anymore and spent
the rest of the week avoiding the Italian men as much as possible. I am
sorely disppointed in male Italian underwater photographers if they are all
like this mob!

During the week at Sipadan Water Village, I witnessed two other divers who
spent inordinately long periods of time photographing small fish/animals
(macro) only to rise from their position and fin so hard to get away that
whatever they had photographed would probably have been washed away in the
wake. In these instances, one was a Polish man and the other was a Japanese
man.

One bright spot was seeing other photographers and videophiles who had
superb buoyancy control and were very gentle with the wildlife in Sipdan and
Mabul. These were all Americans.

I was considering taking up underwater photography but have now decided that
I'd rather see what I can before it's completely destroyed by the
overweighted and inept divers who only care about what their friends will
say about their precious photographs.

I feel better now...

Jo

Jimini wrote:

On the first day I was "lucky" enough to witness wanton reef destruction,
the group's apparent leader actually kicked a ball of hard coral the
size of a basketball off it's stem.

Some Italian divers can be really bad, but recall an Italian u/w photographer
has a book out and is very well-known and he did not behave that
way on a trip to PNG.

This may be one example that you've experienced, but there is a new
generation of young Italians coming along who are more environmentally
engaged. Italian women are not so fur coat happy as they used to
be thanks to groups who are active to discourage the wearign of fur,
as one example.

Sorry that you ran into the wrong group! Mostly, I've enjoyed the
Italian divers I've met on various live-aboards as a fun group to be
with and have enjoyed learning the Italian names for various fishes.

Jimini wrote:

> Just had to get this off my chest...
>
> Recently returned from 1 week in Layang Layang and 1 week in Sipadan Water
> Village. During the week at Layang Layang I was "fortunate" (and I use the
> term very, very loosely) enough to dive with a group of Italian divers who
> claimed to be a "Photographic Society", all male. I have never seen so many
> overweighted, destructive, selfish divers in my life. These guys were only
> interested in getting the shots they wanted and to hell with the rest of the
> reef. On the first day I was "lucky" enough to witness wanton reef
> destruction, the group's apparent leader actually kicked a ball of hard
> coral the size of a basketball off it's stem. When I asked the DM about the
> group, he said he had already spoken with them (obviously to no avail). I
> couldn't hold my tongue and told the reef-kicker what I had witnessed and he
> had the audacity to deny he did it. The next day, he actually was walking
> on a plate coral to catch his footing while filming something else. Later,
> I overheard one of the other men say that no one owns the reef so it
> shouldn't matter what happens to it. What an obviously selfish attitude! I
> was so distraught from what I witnessed, I couldn't watch anymore and spent
> the rest of the week avoiding the Italian men as much as possible. I am
> sorely disppointed in male Italian underwater photographers if they are all
> like this mob!
>
> During the week at Sipadan Water Village, I witnessed two other divers who
> spent inordinately long periods of time photographing small fish/animals
> (macro) only to rise from their position and fin so hard to get away that
> whatever they had photographed would probably have been washed away in the
> wake. In these instances, one was a Polish man and the other was a Japanese
> man.
>
> One bright spot was seeing other photographers and videophiles who had
> superb buoyancy control and were very gentle with the wildlife in Sipdan and
> Mabul. These were all Americans.
>
> I was considering taking up underwater photography but have now decided that
> I'd rather see what I can before it's completely destroyed by the
> overweighted and inept divers who only care about what their friends will
> say about their precious photographs.
>
> I feel better now...
>
> Jo

Your experience with this particular group of morons was unfortunate to
be sure, and I certainly would've handled it differently than you. Be
careful with the broad brush you're painting this picture with.


--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten' ICQ = 35253273
"All that we do is touched with ocean, yet we remain on the shore of
what we know." -- Richard Wilbur

You're right on target with your assessment of the situation. There's only
one thing more that you could do, IMHO, and that is to become a photographer
and then you can gather evidence to show the group leader, boat captain and
the actual offenders. It seems unreal now with our about-face change in
attitude toward protecting the reefs, but there was a time early in sport
diving when Americans were clueless as well. I just think that now we're
miles ahead in understanding reef ecology and we have to be conscientious
about showing by example and by gentle reminders how we think divers should
interact with the reef and its creatures. Some clods will remain oblivious,
but others will catch on.

Jeanne

"Jimini" <jimini@telus.net> wrote in message
news:EQcgc.42135$dg7.11860@edtnps84...
> Just had to get this off my chest...
>
> Recently returned from 1 week in Layang Layang and 1 week in Sipadan Water
> Village. During the week at Layang Layang I was "fortunate" (and I use
the
> term very, very loosely) enough to dive with a group of Italian divers who
> claimed to be a "Photographic Society", all male. I have never seen so
many
> overweighted, destructive, selfish divers in my life. These guys were
only
> interested in getting the shots they wanted and to hell with the rest of
the
> reef. On the first day I was "lucky" enough to witness wanton reef
> destruction, the group's apparent leader actually kicked a ball of hard
> coral the size of a basketball off it's stem. When I asked the DM about
the
> group, he said he had already spoken with them (obviously to no avail). I
> couldn't hold my tongue and told the reef-kicker what I had witnessed and
he
> had the audacity to deny he did it. The next day, he actually was walking
> on a plate coral to catch his footing while filming something else.
Later,
> I overheard one of the other men say that no one owns the reef so it
> shouldn't matter what happens to it. What an obviously selfish attitude!
I
> was so distraught from what I witnessed, I couldn't watch anymore and
spent
> the rest of the week avoiding the Italian men as much as possible. I am
> sorely disppointed in male Italian underwater photographers if they are
all
> like this mob!
>
> During the week at Sipadan Water Village, I witnessed two other divers who
> spent inordinately long periods of time photographing small fish/animals
> (macro) only to rise from their position and fin so hard to get away that
> whatever they had photographed would probably have been washed away in the
> wake. In these instances, one was a Polish man and the other was a
Japanese
> man.
>
> One bright spot was seeing other photographers and videophiles who had
> superb buoyancy control and were very gentle with the wildlife in Sipdan
and
> Mabul. These were all Americans.
>
> I was considering taking up underwater photography but have now decided
that
> I'd rather see what I can before it's completely destroyed by the
> overweighted and inept divers who only care about what their friends will
> say about their precious photographs.
>
> I feel better now...
>
> Jo
>
>
>

In article <EQcgc.42135$dg7.11860@edtnps84>, Jimini <jimini@telus.net> wrote:
>One bright spot was seeing other photographers and videophiles who had
>superb buoyancy control and were very gentle with the wildlife in Sipdan and
>Mabul. These were all Americans.

>I feel better now...

Why? You made a lot of generalizations supported by very limited data.
At least you stuck to national boundaries rather than ethnic ones.

I'll simplify it:
1) some divers are ignorant of ecological concerns.
2) many divers have poor buoyancy control
3) photography requires better bouyancy control than new or infrequent
divers tend to have.
--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

In article <c5s6vo$1c6h$1@agate.berkeley.edu>, jor@soda.csua.berkeley.edu
(Jason O'Rourke) wrote:

>
> Why? You made a lot of generalizations supported by very limited data.
> At least you stuck to national boundaries rather than ethnic ones.

"Why"..... you ask !

Because he said it how he saw it........Data.....what data.....
He knew they were Italians he was diving with them, not his fault they
were italian......I'm sure he would have said the same should they have
been Brits or Yanks.......
Dave Morgan @ Work in the UK
Take out the "goes diving" bit....
Trip photos on line at www.morg.co.uk

I've never seen photographers do as much damage as frenzied divers gathering
lobsters in the Keys.

Dave Morgan <morgandgoesdiving@cix.co.uk> wrote:
>Because he said it how he saw it........Data.....what data.....
>He knew they were Italians he was diving with them, not his fault they
>were italian......I'm sure he would have said the same should they have
>been Brits or Yanks.......

Do divers have little flags on their BC to indicate their origins?

He noted that all good divers were American. There was an implication
there, though not one founded by what you see in Miami or Cozumel.

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

"Dave Morgan" wrote

> Saw the same thing on Mabul in March, i and my wife were "trying" to video
> Mandarin fish, we had stayed on the "Platform" moored of Mabul, when along
> came a group of about 6-8 divers with camera's, 2 or 3 of them were
> standing upright in the water and as you say, trashing the reef trying to
> get a foothold, before we knew it the visibility was that bad no one could
> see anything.......a ruined dive and no video.....
>
> We all have to learn but for christ sake teach your trainees some buoyancy
> control........its key to the whole thing.

The keys to the whole thing are knowledge of the effects of kicking,
standing or otherwise contacting things in the water and the desire to avoid
them. Buoyancy control is a tool for achieving that desire.

Lee

In article <m9Ogc.13091$l75.2172@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink .net>,
leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com (Lee Bell) wrote:

> The keys to the whole thing are knowledge of the effects of kicking,
> standing or otherwise contacting things in the water and the desire to
> avoid
> them. Buoyancy control is a tool for achieving that desire.

Ok.......We all have to learn but for christ sake teach your trainees some
of the effects of kicking, standing or otherwise contacting things in the
water........its key to the whole thing.

And when you've taught them that (the effects of kicking etc).......teach
them bouancy control.

I just feel that not enough emphasis is placed upon buoyancy control when
students are learning, i feel that they are under so much pressure to
complete the course that as long as they can do the required tasks (at
least once) they get their card....nothing substitutes for "time in the
water"......but once they can master the "just hang" bit then their mind
will relax and be able to concentrate on things around them.

Dave Morgan @ Work in the UK
Take out the "goes diving" bit....
Trip photos on line at www.morg.co.uk