which diver are you ?

Thus spake "Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> :

><Joe> wrote
>
>> You can't go by your bore hole theory.
>>
>> I am talking about blown hose, which would have no bore restrictions
>> you name.
>
>You're showing your ignorance. Pay attention and you may do better. Take
>your high pressure hose off, turn the end that goes into the regulator
>towards you and look at the pinhole size of the opening. Now do the the
>same with your low pressure hose. You find that the opening in the high
>pressure connection is much, much smaller than the one in the low pressure
>hose.
>
>The fact is, the high pressure hose is deliberately designed to allow a very
>small flow. Not much is needed to operate a pressure gauge. The low
>pressure hose is designed for low restriction and a high flow. A lot of gas
>may be required to keep you breathing at depth.
>
>The pressure in the low pressure side of things is only low because of a
>valve in the first stage that is designed to maintain an approximate
>intermediate pressure. When the pressue in the hose is less than the preset
>value, as it is when you breathe in or when the hose or connection fails,
>that valve flows gas like crazy in order to restore the design pressure.
>With a blow low pressure hose, it will continue to flow like crazy until
>there is no longer sufficient pressure for it to flow more, ie, the tank is
>empty.
>
>Lee
>

Personal experience. A few years ago we were in Kona when Carol's
octo blew. She said she looked down at her gauge and saw the needle
move when she inhaled, and never come quite back to the same mark.
Air was coming out VERY quickly. Some where I've got an old HP hose
with a SPG attached. If I can find it I'll take an axe to the thing.

--
dillon
Linux, it's not just an OS, it's a way
of life.

And a damn fine one, at that.

Nice troll, Joe. Hope the buddies who put you up to it offered you a
good quality case of beer.


FWIW, I hope that you found the _Undercurrent_ article that I posted
earlier to be useful and contain a sufficient pragmatic explanation.
If you need more scientific detail, the question is a straightforward
exercise which can be researched via most good contemporary
undergraduate engineering textbooks on the subject of gas dynamics that
cover choked flow through a nozzle.


-hh

"When the blind squirrel does finally find a nut, don't begrudge him
his brief moment of glory"

captkeywest wrote:
> Diver A politely informs the young instructor that he is already
> certified and does not need a checkout dive.

I'm Diver A who's still had to waste 50 bar of precious dive gas on
occasion waiting while the organisers piss about making sure that people
with 50+ dives can clear their masks and buddy breathe - which has
nothing to do with good bouyancy control anyway.

I've yet to see one of the dive operations that requires these checks
also provide equipment that you can tuck away neatly (eg. cable ties on
the hoses) so they don't dangle on the reefs.

"BarryNL" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:42e6187a$0$11064$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> captkeywest wrote:
>> Diver A politely informs the young instructor that he is already
>> certified and does not need a checkout dive.
>
> I'm Diver A who's still had to waste 50 bar of precious dive gas on
> occasion waiting while the organisers piss about making sure that people
> with 50+ dives can clear their masks and buddy breathe - which has nothing
> to do with good bouyancy control anyway.
>
> I've yet to see one of the dive operations that requires these checks also
> provide equipment that you can tuck away neatly (eg. cable ties on the
> hoses) so they don't dangle on the reefs.

Good point. It's been a long time since I last used rental equipment, but I
don't recall ever having a problem arranging things so that everything was
secure. On occasion, I have had to buy a couple of hose clips to do it.

Lee

from a local dive column.........

Divers must work hard to protect reef

DIVERSIONS ( credit to Capt. Scott F.)

Diver A walks into a dive shop on a beautiful tropical island and asks
to sign up for the afternoon trip to the local reef.

The young instructor behind the counter checks Diver A's certification
card and notes that he's been certified for a number of years.

In addition, the instructor notices that Diver A has taken several
additional courses beyond open water.

Releases are signed and everything goes well until Diver A is informed
that he will be joining several other first-time visitors to the island
on a checkout dive.


Diver A politely informs the young instructor that he is already
certified and does not need a checkout dive.

The young instructor, also polite but firm, explains to Diver A that to
protect the coral reef of the beautiful tropical island, all divers
must first exhibit comfort in the water and proper buoyancy control
before being allowed to dive.

Diver A is not at all happy. He thinks that a certification card is
proof enough that he can dive.




He is not amused that this young instructor wants to see him perform a
few skills - skills that he has been doing long before this young
instructor ever started teaching.

Diver B walks into the same shop on the same beautiful tropical island
and also wants to sign up for a dive to the local reef.

The young instructor checks his certification as well and notes that
this diver also has quite a bit of experience and additional training.




When informed about the policy of all dive operations on the beautiful
tropical island on protecting the coral reef, Diver B simply nods and
agrees to "jump through the hoops" to be allowed to dive on the famed
reefs.

Diver B looks forward to the chance to showcase his mask clearing
skills and buoyancy control.

Diver B also understands that by requiring a checkout dive before
allowing divers to explore the reefs of the beautiful tropical island,
the dive operators are ensuring that only careful, competent divers
enter the water.




Others are offered additional training and help to ensure that the
coral reefs remain in a healthy pristine state.

Diver B knows that by protecting the coral reefs, the beautiful
tropical island is creating a product that divers the world over will
seek to visit and explore.

So which diver are you?




Would you get angry and upset if an operator asked you to perform a few
simple skills to showcase your proficiency?

Or would you understand that the operator was simply trying to help
preserve the delicate and precious coral reef environment?

Would you be happy to "show off" a little and show the instructor the
skills you have been working on over the years?

And would your answers change if that beautiful tropical island was
right here in the Florida Keys?

Would you complain if you had to prove your proficiency before being
allowed to dive here?

Is our beautiful tropical island not as good as theirs?

Best fishes!

"captkeywest" <captkeywest@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120478306.318493.34830@g49g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> So which diver are you?

Diver A. Very poor divers pass the skill tests you tout as able to save the
reefs. To waste a couple hours or a whole day doing needless skill-proof is
a waste of vacation time.

All this fuss about allowing someone to dive in the Florida Keys and swim
around in the eel grass? Get real!

The Florida Keys don't even appear on my radar screen!

captkeywest wrote:

> from a local dive column.........
>
> Divers must work hard to protect reef
>
> DIVERSIONS ( credit to Capt. Scott F.)
>
> Diver A walks into a dive shop on a beautiful tropical island and asks
> to sign up for the afternoon trip to the local reef.
>
> The young instructor behind the counter checks Diver A's certification
> card and notes that he's been certified for a number of years.
>
> In addition, the instructor notices that Diver A has taken several
> additional courses beyond open water.
>
> Releases are signed and everything goes well until Diver A is informed
> that he will be joining several other first-time visitors to the island
> on a checkout dive.
>
> Diver A politely informs the young instructor that he is already
> certified and does not need a checkout dive.
>
> The young instructor, also polite but firm, explains to Diver A that to
> protect the coral reef of the beautiful tropical island, all divers
> must first exhibit comfort in the water and proper buoyancy control
> before being allowed to dive.
>
> Diver A is not at all happy. He thinks that a certification card is
> proof enough that he can dive.
>
> He is not amused that this young instructor wants to see him perform a
> few skills - skills that he has been doing long before this young
> instructor ever started teaching.
>
> Diver B walks into the same shop on the same beautiful tropical island
> and also wants to sign up for a dive to the local reef.
>
> The young instructor checks his certification as well and notes that
> this diver also has quite a bit of experience and additional training.
>
> When informed about the policy of all dive operations on the beautiful
> tropical island on protecting the coral reef, Diver B simply nods and
> agrees to "jump through the hoops" to be allowed to dive on the famed
> reefs.
>
> Diver B looks forward to the chance to showcase his mask clearing
> skills and buoyancy control.
>
> Diver B also understands that by requiring a checkout dive before
> allowing divers to explore the reefs of the beautiful tropical island,
> the dive operators are ensuring that only careful, competent divers
> enter the water.
>
> Others are offered additional training and help to ensure that the
> coral reefs remain in a healthy pristine state.
>
> Diver B knows that by protecting the coral reefs, the beautiful
> tropical island is creating a product that divers the world over will
> seek to visit and explore.
>
> So which diver are you?
>
> Would you get angry and upset if an operator asked you to perform a few
> simple skills to showcase your proficiency?
>
> Or would you understand that the operator was simply trying to help
> preserve the delicate and precious coral reef environment?
>
> Would you be happy to "show off" a little and show the instructor the
> skills you have been working on over the years?
>
> And would your answers change if that beautiful tropical island was
> right here in the Florida Keys?
>
> Would you complain if you had to prove your proficiency before being
> allowed to dive here?
>
> Is our beautiful tropical island not as good as theirs?
>
> Best fishes!

In message <1120478306.318493.34830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
captkeywest <captkeywest@yahoo.com> writes
>So which diver are you?
>
>
>
>
>Would you get angry and upset if an operator asked you to perform a few
>simple skills to showcase your proficiency?

In my experience, checkout dives seem commonplace, even on a liveaboard
filled with experienced divers.

They tend to be announced as an opportunity to check weights and
buoyancy, and not to make sure that you are good enough, (even if that
is part of it).

Never experienced anyone being unhappy with a checkout dive, and not
sure how anyone could be if they are presented correctly.


--
Richard Faulkner

You would be

_charging me money_

to waste

_my limited vacation time_

on a worthless dive site?

You would?

Hmm. Why would I want to waste my time and money on that crap? I'd be
Diver C - to hell with this BS island, I'll go where divers are treated
as adults, thanks. Florida's on my boycott list at this point anyway, as
it happens. Nice way to keep it there. And by the way, if you-all would
put in some effective sewage treatment, it would have a great deal more
positive effect on the reef, without pissing off competent divers. But
that might interfere with your program to build a house every 50 feet
throughout Monroe county...nice job wiping out those pesky endangered
burrowing owls at Marathon, BTW.

Now, if you want to spend 5 minutes in the pool out back for free, I
might be able to stand that. But I have no interest in paying to go to
some spot you've had incompetent people walking all over every day to do
tricks for some snot-nosed kid.

Diver A.

Over the years I've paid to do the courses, I've paid to do the dives. Is it conceivable that as a certified trimix diver I don't
have the bouyancy skills to stay off a reef? Regardless of whether or not it is, I am not prepared to waste my dive-time and
hard-earned money "reassuring" (more accurately, subsidising) the local dive operation.