which diver are you ?

captkeywest wrote:
snip
>
> Diver A walks into a dive shop on a beautiful tropical island and asks
> to sign up for the afternoon trip to the local reef.

That wouldn't be me.

I would've done some research, gotten some opinions and called first to
see if the dive operation had objectionable requirements like buddy
diving, or checkout dives, or excessive supervision or excessive safety
requirements, like having a certain amount of gas at the end of the
dive, etc. Or in-water divemasters/scuba gods.

I like a dive op whose waiver says they are just my taxi to and from
the site and that I am otherwise responsible for myself. It's nice if
they are experienced enough to recognize an independent, competent
diver from one who needs some assistance.

Before I booked a two-week trip to Bonaire, I called the dive operation
and asked these questions and got satisfactory answers. Even though the
island requires all dive operations to conduct a morning orientation
and checkout dive to award a diving permit, that didn't bother me since
I still had plenty of time to dive.

> Releases are signed and everything goes well until Diver A is informed
> that he will be joining several other first-time visitors to the island
> on a checkout dive.

Not good. Instead of finding a better way to address the small
percentage of divers who have poor buoyancy skills, they choose a
blanket solution that doesn't really predict on-reef behavior or skill
anyway. It may raise the awareness about damaging the reef, but that
could be accomplished with a 10 minute video and some peer pressure. A
voluntary checkout dive could be offered to those who want to practice
their buoyancy skills or fine-tune their weighting.

Snip

> Diver B also understands that by requiring a checkout dive before
> allowing divers to explore the reefs of the beautiful tropical island,
> the dive operators are ensuring that only careful, competent divers
> enter the water.

There's the fallacious and unproven bureaucratic argument that gets
Diver A ticked off. He's not necessarily being defensive or insensitive
to the issue of protecting the reef.

I know some divers with lots of experience who could pass the checkout
dive and then, once on their own, would carpet-bomb the reef like a
finned B-52, oblivious to everything aft of their mask lens.

Maybe Diver B has swallowed the rationale and gets some "feel good"
jollies or maybe it's just too inconvenient to go elsewhere, but I'd
bet he'll weigh his options next time.

snip

> So which diver are you?

Neither one. We politely ended my "checkout" phone call without my
requesting a reservation; thank you for your time.

And you got another hint that requiring experienced divers to perform a
checkout dive was bad for business and didn't necessarily help protect
the reef.

I readily accept the premise of diver-caused reef damage, but you need
to come up with a better solution, like requiring divers to watch a
well-done 10-minute video to raise awareness of the issues and skills
needed to avoid damaging the reef. And maybe offer a free _voluntary_
checkout dive. As a concerned operator, you'd certainly invest that
much in protecting the reef, wouldn't you?

> Would you get angry and upset if an operator asked you to perform a few
> simple skills to showcase your proficiency?

No, I didn't book with that operator. Good luck.

> Or would you understand that the operator was simply trying to help
> preserve the delicate and precious coral reef environment?

Yes, but I might also understand the operator had a mind-set that
readily places unnecessary limits on an overwhelming majority of
clients because it's for a good cause and they haven't figured out a
reasonable way to address the minority of divers who might damage the
reef.

> Would you be happy to "show off" a little and show the instructor the
> skills you have been working on over the years?

"Want a cookie?" No thanks.

> And would your answers change if that beautiful tropical island was
> right here in the Florida Keys?

No. Bonaire's orientation video was excellent, but the checkout dive
was a joke, useful only for adjusting weighting. The rare, finned
B-52's were simply in a holding pattern, queuing up for the bombing
run. :(

> Would you complain if you had to prove your proficiency before being
> allowed to dive here?
>
> Is our beautiful tropical island not as good as theirs?

It's certainly worth protecting, but there are better solutions than a
mandatory checkout dive.

Best regards,

Dave C

Lee Bell wrote:

When I first saw this I would agree that what is the big deal with a
check out dive.

But after seeing the seasoned diver posts I agree with them. FOr the
most part it is newbie DM trying to just generate more money. I'll just
go to Coz and dive with Blue Bubbles. ( My diving on the Cruise at St
Thomas and St Maarteen (Dutch Side) was VERY GOOD

"captkeywest" <captkeywest@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120478306.318493.34830@g49g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Releases are signed and everything goes well until Diver A is informed
> that he will be joining several other first-time visitors to the island
> on a checkout dive.

Do I have to pay $40+ for the so called "privilege"? Will I be forced to
buddy with someone that has significantly lesser skills than myself?

> Diver A politely informs the young instructor that he is already
> certified and does not need a checkout dive.
>
> The young instructor, also polite but firm, explains to Diver A that to
> protect the coral reef of the beautiful tropical island, all divers
> must first exhibit comfort in the water and proper buoyancy control
> before being allowed to dive.
>
> Diver A is not at all happy. He thinks that a certification card is
> proof enough that he can dive.

It should be, but I'll agree that it isn't always the case.

> He is not amused that this young instructor wants to see him perform a
> few skills - skills that he has been doing long before this young
> instructor ever started teaching.
>
> Diver B walks into the same shop on the same beautiful tropical island
> and also wants to sign up for a dive to the local reef.
>
> The young instructor checks his certification as well and notes that
> this diver also has quite a bit of experience and additional training.
>
> When informed about the policy of all dive operations on the beautiful
> tropical island on protecting the coral reef, Diver B simply nods and
> agrees to "jump through the hoops" to be allowed to dive on the famed
> reefs.

So Diver B has no problem with having to pay $40+ to "jump through the
hoops"?

>
> Diver B looks forward to the chance to showcase his mask clearing
> skills and buoyancy control.

Yeah, "showcase". LOL.

> Diver B also understands that by requiring a checkout dive before
> allowing divers to explore the reefs of the beautiful tropical island,
> the dive operators are ensuring that only careful, competent divers
> enter the water.

> Others are offered additional training and help to ensure that the
> coral reefs remain in a healthy pristine state.
>

At least with that op. OTOH, I wonder what they do with the "others" if
they refuse the additional training . . . are they told to pack up and go
home . . .turn in their C card as they are not worthy? What are the
consequences? Do the failed divers get their money back? What if the
"others" take the additional training and still aren't any damn good at
buoyancy control?

> Diver B knows that by protecting the coral reefs, the beautiful
> tropical island is creating a product that divers the world over will
> seek to visit and explore.
>
> So which diver are you?

I'm the one that uses peer pressure to encourage others to protect the reef.
I'm not the one that expects to pay an op twice for the "privilege".

> Would you get angry and upset if an operator asked you to perform a few
> simple skills to showcase your proficiency?

Probably not, as long as they didn't make me pay to show them. I'd probably
not be all that impressed, but after all, it only takes a minute to clear my
mask and my buoyancy skills should have been apparent before I got to that
point. By the way, what does proving I can clear my mask have to do with
saving the reef?

> Or would you understand that the operator was simply trying to help
> preserve the delicate and precious coral reef environment?

Again, what does proving I can clear my mask have to do with preserving the
reef?

> Would you be happy to "show off" a little and show the instructor the
> skills you have been working on over the years?

LOL.

> And would your answers change if that beautiful tropical island was
> right here in the Florida Keys?

No.

> Would you complain if you had to prove your proficiency before being
> allowed to dive here?

Only if I have to pay for it.

> Is our beautiful tropical island not as good as theirs?

Possibly not. By the way, who is this "theirs"? Maybe I'd like to dive
there.

chilly wrote:

> Again, what does proving I can clear my mask have to do with preserving the
> reef?

My own experience and resulting impression is newbies clearing their
masks often don't have the buoyancy skill to clear a mask without
sinking into trouble. And I don't necessarily disagree with this issue,
I've seen it, it's a little like walking and chewing gum simultaneously
- some manage the extra task load, some don't.


--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

"Jer" <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote in message
news:11cnjqv6j202e74@corp.supernews.com...
> chilly wrote:
>
> > Again, what does proving I can clear my mask have to do with preserving
the
> > reef?
>
> My own experience and resulting impression is newbies clearing their
> masks often don't have the buoyancy skill to clear a mask without
> sinking into trouble. And I don't necessarily disagree with this issue,
> I've seen it, it's a little like walking and chewing gum simultaneously
> - some manage the extra task load, some don't.

Well, you might have a point. Come to think of it, most PADI students
haven't cleared their mask in any position except on their knees.

Jeer wrote:
> chilly wrote:
>
>> Again, what does proving I can clear my mask have to do with
>> preserving the
>> reef?
>
>
> My own experience and resulting impression is newbies clearing their
> masks often don't have the buoyancy skill to clear a mask without
> sinking into trouble. And I don't necessarily disagree with this issue,
> I've seen it, it's a little like walking and chewing gum simultaneously
> - some manage the extra task load, some don't.
>
>
But have you ever been asked on a checkout dive to clear your mask while
maintaining neutral bouyancy? Almost all of the checkout dives are done
on the bottom and consist of a simple skill review. I think they prove
little compared to a log book review and are designed to keep newbie DMs
employed and busy.

Scott

--
--------------------
Scott F. Migaldi
CP-ASEL-IA
N8116B

PADI MI-150972
Join the PADI Instructor Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PADI-Instructors/

--------------------

"chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> pounded away at his keyboard resulting
in:
:Well, you might have a point. Come to think of it, most PADI students
:haven't cleared their mask in any position except on their knees.

We are talking about PADI graduates, not students.

Dan Bracuk
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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Scott Migaldi wrote:
> Jeer wrote:
>
>> chilly wrote:
>>
>>> Again, what does proving I can clear my mask have to do with
>>> preserving the
>>> reef?
>>
>>
>>
>> My own experience and resulting impression is newbies clearing their
>> masks often don't have the buoyancy skill to clear a mask without
>> sinking into trouble. And I don't necessarily disagree with this
>> issue, I've seen it, it's a little like walking and chewing gum
>> simultaneously - some manage the extra task load, some don't.
>>
>>
> But have you ever been asked on a checkout dive to clear your mask while
> maintaining neutral bouyancy? Almost all of the checkout dives are done
> on the bottom and consist of a simple skill review. I think they prove
> little compared to a log book review and are designed to keep newbie DMs
> employed and busy.
>
> Scott
>


Actually, I've only been asked to dance my mask clearing skill once - in
Jamaica of all places. Odd that this request came only after leaving
the surface, so it wasn't an imposition, per se, so I danced and exited
stage right toward a wreck. It was later I learned they weren't ready
for our little entourage to go anywhere but back to the surface, so you
could say I spooked a dive when they weren't looking. :)

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

Dan Bracuk wrote:
> "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> pounded away at his keyboard resulting
> in:
> :Well, you might have a point. Come to think of it, most PADI students
> :haven't cleared their mask in any position except on their knees.
>
> We are talking about PADI graduates, not students.

A better question is what does a PADI (or NAUI or whatever) graduate
do when they encounter situations for which they were NOT trained?

THAT's what a certified diver is SUPPOSED to have the presence of
mind and skill to handle, without having been specifically trained
for it.

I recall diving on the Cayman Aggressor when my mask strap broke,
during the early part of a dive, far from the boat. I went to the
sandy bottom, and tried to repair it, to no avail. So I just
finished the rest of the dive as I normally would, except holding
the mask (without a strap) in place on my face with one hand.
A couple of divers must have noticed my predicament and told
Captain Bill Spenser about it, because when I got back to the
boat quite a while later, Bill was watching intently from the
platform, and we exchanged a knowing smile when I handed to him
my strapless mask on my way up the ladder.


Another incident of a different kind required a bit more diving
skills, and buoyancy control. I took my BC off 80 fsw inside the
Belize Blue Hole, to re-strap my tank which was slipping off,
while in neutral buoyancy during the slow ascent, and put the
BCD back on, without missing a beat in the ascent.

In that case, as a self-reliant diver, I had already anticipated
what I would do it that happened, and knew I could do it easily
on a sandy bottom. Doing it during ascent, in neutral buoyancy,
was the only thing new.

http://tinyurl.com/8727k


A third (sic for turd) related incident was completely unexpected
and required the utmost UW sportsmanship and skills. See:

http://tinyurl.com/eyx5o


There are many many incidents I've encountered during my rec
dives, mostly minior equipment failures, such as blown hoses,
depth gauze blown out of the console, stuck inflator hose, etc.,
etc., for which there was never any TRAINING for it during
any basic OR advanced diving courses in Scuba.

As a certified (self-reliant) diver, you just COPE with it,
with the Stop Breathe Think Act (SBTA) lesson in OW-I, and
the Seveb A (Ancicipate, Assess, Act, etc.) lesson in a
Rescue Diver course, a diver should be ready to handle
ALMOST anything unexpected UW, and not panic for a buddy's
help or the help of anybuddy else.

That's what a CERTIFIED scuba diver should do.

-- Bob.

Thus spake "Reef Fish" <Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com> :

>
>
>Dan Bracuk wrote:
>> "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> pounded away at his keyboard resulting
>> in:
>> :Well, you might have a point. Come to think of it, most PADI students
>> :haven't cleared their mask in any position except on their knees.
>>
>> We are talking about PADI graduates, not students.
>
>A better question is what does a PADI (or NAUI or whatever) graduate
>do when they encounter situations for which they were NOT trained?
>
>THAT's what a certified diver is SUPPOSED to have the presence of
>mind and skill to handle, without having been specifically trained
>for it.
>
>I recall diving on the Cayman Aggressor when my mask strap broke,
>during the early part of a dive, far from the boat. I went to the
>sandy bottom, and tried to repair it, to no avail. So I just
>finished the rest of the dive as I normally would, except holding
>the mask (without a strap) in place on my face with one hand.
>A couple of divers must have noticed my predicament and told
>Captain Bill Spenser about it, because when I got back to the
>boat quite a while later, Bill was watching intently from the
>platform, and we exchanged a knowing smile when I handed to him
>my strapless mask on my way up the ladder.

You twit, you pull your spare mask out of the auxilliary BC.

>
>
>Another incident of a different kind required a bit more diving
>skills, and buoyancy control. I took my BC off 80 fsw inside the
>Belize Blue Hole, to re-strap my tank which was slipping off,
>while in neutral buoyancy during the slow ascent, and put the
>BCD back on, without missing a beat in the ascent.

I did that quite frequently when my BC was new.

>
>In that case, as a self-reliant diver, I had already anticipated
>what I would do it that happened, and knew I could do it easily
>on a sandy bottom. Doing it during ascent, in neutral buoyancy,
>was the only thing new.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/8727k
>
>
>A third (sic for turd) related incident was completely unexpected
>and required the utmost UW sportsmanship and skills. See:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/eyx5o
>
>
>There are many many incidents I've encountered during my rec
>dives, mostly minior equipment failures, such as blown hoses,
>depth gauze blown out of the console, stuck inflator hose, etc.,
>etc., for which there was never any TRAINING for it during
>any basic OR advanced diving courses in Scuba.
>
>As a certified (self-reliant) diver, you just COPE with it,
>with the Stop Breathe Think Act (SBTA) lesson in OW-I, and
>the Seveb A (Ancicipate, Assess, Act, etc.) lesson in a
>Rescue Diver course, a diver should be ready to handle
>ALMOST anything unexpected UW, and not panic for a buddy's
>help or the help of anybuddy else.
>
>That's what a CERTIFIED scuba diver should do.
>
>-- Bob.

--
dillon
Linux, it's not just an OS, it's a way
of life.

And a damn fine one, at that.