PADI Training vs.. others

In article <1226jr1952fd1bd@news.supernews.com>, Popeye
<Popeye@Finalprotectivefire.com> wrote:

€ "Lee Bell" <pleebell2@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
€ news:rJHUf.2702$lM3.47@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
€ > "Dan Bracuk" wrote
€ >
€ >> Considering that most of us breathe 4 or 5 lbs of air during a dive,
€ >> that it indeed remarkable. I can do it for a bit, but not for an
€ >> entire dive.
€ >
€ > Start a couple lbs heavy, end a couple lbs light and you're there. It
€ > would be difficult to compensate for 5 lbs positive or negative, but it's
€ > not hard to do it for plus or minus two at all.
€
€
€ I can't see Dan Bracuk's posts, why is that?
€
€
€

I haven't been able to see his posts for quite some time. I'm guessing
he changed news servers.

Popeye wrote:
> "Lee Bell" <pleebell2@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:rJHUf.2702$lM3.47@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>
>>"Dan Bracuk" wrote
>>
>>
>>>Considering that most of us breathe 4 or 5 lbs of air during a dive,
>>>that it indeed remarkable. I can do it for a bit, but not for an
>>>entire dive.
>>
>>Start a couple lbs heavy, end a couple lbs light and you're there. It
>>would be difficult to compensate for 5 lbs positive or negative, but it's
>>not hard to do it for plus or minus two at all.
>
>
>
> I can't see Dan Bracuk's posts, why is that?

They're a couple pounds heavy at the header, a couple pounds
light at the sig; physioelectronically impossible.

Reef Fish wrote:


> That's pure, unadulterated BULLSHIT for tanks of ANY SIZE, Aluminum
> or Steel. The MASS of air inside the tank does not remain constant.


And the displacement of the diver carrying the tank also does
not remain constant.

Both of these facts were well known to divers before the recent
adoption of BCs, and the techniques of playing one against the
other were a skill that every diver practiced.

The fact that my BC does not hold air does not affect my
buoyancy a whole helluva lot. If the boat drivers would let me
dive without it, I'd be a whole lot more comfortable.

In article <r_KUf.22737$bn3.7338@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
mike gray <omgray@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

€ Popeye wrote:
€ > "Lee Bell" <pleebell2@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
€ > news:rJHUf.2702$lM3.47@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
€ >
€ >>"Dan Bracuk" wrote
€ >>
€ >>
€ >>>Considering that most of us breathe 4 or 5 lbs of air during a dive,
€ >>>that it indeed remarkable. I can do it for a bit, but not for an
€ >>>entire dive.
€ >>
€ >>Start a couple lbs heavy, end a couple lbs light and you're there. It
€ >>would be difficult to compensate for 5 lbs positive or negative, but it's
€ >>not hard to do it for plus or minus two at all.
€ >
€ >
€ >
€ > I can't see Dan Bracuk's posts, why is that?
€
€ They're a couple pounds heavy at the header, a couple pounds
€ light at the sig; physioelectronically impossible.
€


Best answer I've heard so far

Bob Ling Reef Fish wrote:
> "Magilla" wrote:
> >
> > Then you obviously don't know jack shit about tanks.
>
> That's YOU. I gave the spec of that tank ...

Incorrect. Bill had received some preliminary data on the 190, but
did not have full specifications; that was the basic source of the
thread. What Bob quoted were some parametric estimates that were made
Bob Ling, not "specs" from the manufacturer.

Bill died cave diving a month later; he never did get those tank specs.



> ...and I was discussing it with Bill Mayne.

More like: Bob Ling stuck his nose into that particular rec.scuba
conversation, and then proceeded to have each of his claims be
factually corrected by Bill Mayne.


> I had all the details from the ARCHIVES, idiot!

Yes, it most certainly is. Which means that the other half of the
truth that Bob chose not to divulge is there for everyone to read.
Here's Bill Mayne's correction of Bob Ling:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.s...334ba5ee5afcdd


The conclusion is that Bob Ling still hasn't learned enough sense to
keep quiet during physics discussions: here, its a demonstration of 13
years spent with his cotton in his ears.


-hh

I wish all of you scumbags will hold your breath and fin up to the
surface fast so we can have this group for real scuba divers.


On 21 Mar 2006 07:59:06 -0800, "Reef Fish"
<Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>dweb wrote:
>> Lee Bell wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Screw the masses. Keep cool things for us elite.
>> >
>> Amen! the masses just keep proving Sturgeon's law, and turn everything
>> they touch into crap. I got into diving because it was a place the
>> idiots didn't go, but that's changed,
>
>Lee Bell certainly contributed GREATLY to that change of posting
>crap that anyone with any kind of training would have known is crap!
>
>He was still arguing with someone that he could be NEUTRALLY
>BUOYANT (with no air in his BC) throughout an entire dive, by
>changing his breathing pattern alone (with no motion of any kind).
>
>He has been preaching that heresy for YEARS, even though he had
>been corrected for his same error in rec.scuba, scuba-SE, techdiver,
>and elsewhere! It's something that's against the LAWS of Physics
>and Physiology!
>
>Here's the latest:
>MD> Lee went Vegas and posted:
>>
>Lee> Here's the reality, again. I do what I say I do. With no gas in
>my
>Lee> wing, I can descend, stop my descent stay relatively stationary
>Lee> and ascend, at will, without finning.
>>
>MD> 'Relatively'? Would you be willing to demonstrate that in a test
>MD> without fins?
>
>At which point, I could stand by the sideline no longer, especially
>when
>Lee was brash enough to offer a BET!
>
>RF> Better. Mika. In the Advanced Buoyancy Articles by Gleason in
>1994,
>RF> Watson demonstrated his ability (at the END of a dive, when his
>tank
>RF> was almost empty) to be able to ascend SLOWLY and gradually to
>RF> surface from 60 fsw by breath control only.
>
>RF> He did the demo by having both his feet AND his hands tied,
>
>RF> Watson was able to do this during the last minutes of his ascent
>RF> because he was already NEUTRAL at the time and the buoyancy
>RF> CHANGE from 60 feet to the surface couldn't be more than 1/2 lb.
>
>
>Lee >>How much of your money would you like to put at risk?<
>
>RF> I'll put my $10,000 against his, provided we have an air-tight
>RF> <pun intended> contract drawn up by a lawyer that if Lee should
>RF> die by drowning or suffer any bodily harm, I (or any bettor)
>RF> would NOT be responsible or have any liability on it.
>
>RF> The WAGER would be contingent up the condition that Lee would
>RF> do the same type of control as Watson did: Lee would start with
>RF> a FULL TANK (on whatever lbs of lead he cared to put on himself)

"Joe" <anonymouscocksucker@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:661822pdh1adi6452gkhi844rnodhi64g4@4ax.com...

> I wish all of you scumbags will hold your breath and fin up to the
> surface fast so we can have this group for real scuba divers.

And with help and input like yours, that day is right around the corner.

Glad you could joins us Joe. It's nice to know that there's someone out
there who can completely change the dynamics of a newsgroup all by
themselves.

Chris
"Joe" <Joe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:661822pdh1adi6452gkhi844rnodhi64g4@4ax.com...
> I wish all of you scumbags will hold your breath and fin up to the
> surface fast so we can have this group for real scuba divers.
>
>
> On 21 Mar 2006 07:59:06 -0800, "Reef Fish"
> <Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >dweb wrote:
> >> Lee Bell wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Screw the masses. Keep cool things for us elite.
> >> >
> >> Amen! the masses just keep proving Sturgeon's law, and turn everything
> >> they touch into crap. I got into diving because it was a place the
> >> idiots didn't go, but that's changed,
> >
> >Lee Bell certainly contributed GREATLY to that change of posting
> >crap that anyone with any kind of training would have known is crap!
> >
> >He was still arguing with someone that he could be NEUTRALLY
> >BUOYANT (with no air in his BC) throughout an entire dive, by
> >changing his breathing pattern alone (with no motion of any kind).
> >
> >He has been preaching that heresy for YEARS, even though he had
> >been corrected for his same error in rec.scuba, scuba-SE, techdiver,
> >and elsewhere! It's something that's against the LAWS of Physics
> >and Physiology!
> >
> >Here's the latest:
> >MD> Lee went Vegas and posted:
> >>
> >Lee> Here's the reality, again. I do what I say I do. With no gas in
> >my
> >Lee> wing, I can descend, stop my descent stay relatively stationary
> >Lee> and ascend, at will, without finning.
> >>
> >MD> 'Relatively'? Would you be willing to demonstrate that in a test
> >MD> without fins?
> >
> >At which point, I could stand by the sideline no longer, especially
> >when
> >Lee was brash enough to offer a BET!
> >
> >RF> Better. Mika. In the Advanced Buoyancy Articles by Gleason in
> >1994,
> >RF> Watson demonstrated his ability (at the END of a dive, when his
> >tank
> >RF> was almost empty) to be able to ascend SLOWLY and gradually to
> >RF> surface from 60 fsw by breath control only.
> >
> >RF> He did the demo by having both his feet AND his hands tied,
> >
> >RF> Watson was able to do this during the last minutes of his ascent
> >RF> because he was already NEUTRAL at the time and the buoyancy
> >RF> CHANGE from 60 feet to the surface couldn't be more than 1/2 lb.
> >
> >
> >Lee >>How much of your money would you like to put at risk?<
> >
> >RF> I'll put my $10,000 against his, provided we have an air-tight
> >RF> <pun intended> contract drawn up by a lawyer that if Lee should
> >RF> die by drowning or suffer any bodily harm, I (or any bettor)
> >RF> would NOT be responsible or have any liability on it.
> >
> >RF> The WAGER would be contingent up the condition that Lee would
> >RF> do the same type of control as Watson did: Lee would start with
> >RF> a FULL TANK (on whatever lbs of lead he cared to put on himself)
>

"chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> wrote in message
news:ZdWUf.175444$sa3.64378@pd7tw1no...
>
> "Dan Bracuk" <NOTbracuk@pathcom.com> wrote in message
> news:mah7221bs9abp88mok7lsupj39ujnrdnve@4ax.com...
> > "chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> pounded away at his keyboard resulting
> > in:
> > :At what point during your dive do you stop doing it . . and I mean
> > :specifically after you've done it for a bit?
> >
> > It's not something I really pay attention to. I'm down there to look
> > at fishies, not to play buoyancy games.
> >
> > Most of the the time, I'll descend and put some air in my bc. As I
> > breathe down my air and ascend, I'll let some air out of my bc.
> >
> > Within the context of this discussion, as soon as I take air out of my
> > bc, I stopped controlling my buoyancy by breathing alone.
>
> Well, you're a little off point, but I see where you are going with it.

But while we are talking about it from your perspective, please tell me how
you get to the surface after you have taken the air out of your BC, if you
are no longer controlling your buoyancy through breathing.

>
>
>

"chilly" <slarson@shaw.canada> wrote in message
news:TSXUf.175568$sa3.22229@pd7tw1no...

> But while we are talking about it from your perspective, please tell me
how
> you get to the surface after you have taken the air out of your BC, if you
> are no longer controlling your buoyancy through breathing.

Swim?