Dive newbie who is an oldie

On May 10, 6:25*pm, Joe English <joe2aengl...@wisperhome.com> wrote:
> > Q3. *Where would you go to dive for the best bang for the buck?
> > Belize, Caymans, Bahamas, FL Keys....?
>
I have to say that the Galapagos Islands are great. They are on the
dollar, so it's not dirt cheap, but with a diving cruise you get both
room, board, and no need to rent a car at your destination. I
recommend the Lammer Law run by Quasar Expeditions (check out
http://www.galapagosexpeditions.com/...ng_cruises.php) for an
amazing trip. If you get a chance, do a night dive. The dive masters
will look out for you.

HikeBandit <margery_spe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> > [ISBN10 wrote]
> > Q3. *Where would you go to dive for the best
> > > bang for the buck? Belize, Caymans,
> > > Bahamas, FL Keys....?
>
> I have to say that the Galapagos Islands are great.

Agreed, but its a far cry from the intended 'best bang for the buck'
inquiry of the OP. The Galapagos are also a very bad place for any
Novice to head off to while he's still a novice, due to the diving
conditions found there.


> The dive masters will look out for you.

There's typically DMs in the water, but that doesn't necessarily mean
that they will "look out" for a novice or weak diver: they're mostly
there to act as a local guide who knows the dive site, not to swim
along holding your hand. The diving in the Galapagos requires
fitness, experience and self-reliance, in addition to a willingness
and gear to be comfortable in coldwater...its not benign 'bathtub
diving' (warm, current free, high viz) by a healthy margin; I'd not
recommend it to anyone that doesn't already have 3+years/100+ dives
under his belt, including in some bottom time after Certification
diving in a full 7mmm Farmer John.


-hh

On May 13, 8:04*am, -hh <recscuba_goo...@huntzinger.com> wrote:

> There's typically DMs in the water, but that doesn't necessarily mean
> that they will "look out" for a novice or weak diver: *they're mostly
> there to act as a local guide who knows the dive site, not to swim
> along holding your hand. *The diving in the Galapagos requires
> fitness, experience and self-reliance, in addition to a willingness
> and gear to be comfortable in coldwater...its not benign 'bathtub
> diving' (warm, current free, high viz) by a healthy margin; I'd not
> recommend it to anyone that doesn't already have 3+years/100+ dives
> under his belt, including in some bottom time after Certification
> diving in a full 7mmm Farmer John.

While I agree with the rest, I think a 7mm FJ is being a bit wussy.
After all, people routinely dive those suits in 40 degree water. The
Galapagos ain't that cold even on its coldest days. It's rumored that
people have experienced upper 50s, but in reality the coldest it's
likely to get at the very coldest part of the year is low 60s. 7mm FJ
is overkill for most physiologies. I find layering works the best
there, since temperatures can vary from those cold low 60s to a much
more mild mid-70s in the northern islands. My Hyperstretch "5mm" FJ
sans hood was just the ticket at Wolf and Darwin in August, and I
stuck my paper-thin Hyperstretch "3mm" under that and wore a hood for
the colder stuff. Those that tend to get colder could substitute real
wetsuits for the hyperstretch variety, use a hooded vest, etc.

But as a budget trip? Fuggedaboutit. Even the hop to/from the
islands costs around $400 RT, which I'm guessing is somewhere around
the total transportation budget of the OP. The trip to Ecuador can
easily run into the $1,000-1,500 range and overnight stays are
necessitated on the mainland in both directions. That's 2 grand each
before you even get to your destination! Even if one plans to
illegally camp out and eat wild goats and swim to the dive sites, it's
already getting into the mid-to-upper range of dive trip package
costs. Add in budget lodging, food, and dive boats and you're easily
crossing into the upper range.

Greg Mossman <moss...@qnet.com> wrote:
> -hh <recscuba_goo...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
> > I'd not recommend [Galapagos] to anyone
> > that doesn't already have 3+years/100+ dives
> > under his belt, including in some bottom time
> > after Certification diving in a full 7mmm
> > Farmer John.
>
> While I agree with the rest, I think a 7mm
> FJ is being a bit wussy. After all, people
> routinely dive those suits in 40 degree water.
> The Galapagos ain't that cold even on its
> coldest days.

True, but the point isn't how cold the Galapagos might be, but to
express that the candidate should have relevant coldwater experience,
which specifying a 7mm FJ clearly does. Merely saying "experience
with a single-piece 5mm" isn't good enough, for there are some people
who dive with 5mm's when in the Caribbean in the winter..mid 70's.

> It's rumored that people have experienced
> upper 50s, but in reality the coldest it's
> likely to get at the very coldest part
> of the year is low 60s. *7mm FJ is
> overkill for most physiologies. *

YMMV on your prefernces for how warm you like to be; I recall that we
had at least one diver in a drysuit.

> I find layering works the best there,
> since temperatures can vary from those
> cold low 60s to a much more mild mid-70s
> in the northern islands. *My Hyperstretch
> "5mm" FJ sans hood was just the ticket
> at Wolf and Darwin in August, and I
> stuck my paper-thin Hyperstretch "3mm"
> under that and wore a hood for the colder
> stuff. *

I found my conditions to be effectively the same, and I'd probably
copy your approach next time, as it affords a degree of thermal
flexibility while remaining "luggage-light". However, this is down in
the details of trip planning and gear optimization: I don't believe
that the development of coldwater diving practices is not something
that a novice should be _learning_ for the first time in the Galapagos
environment. Let them do that first at home, before they've put down
a deposit. That way, if they decide that coldwater diving is not for
them, they can just do some coolwater snorkeling on a Naturalist
cruise.

> But as a budget trip? *Fuggedaboutit. *

Even as "merely" a Naturalist cruise format. In an ideal world, you
would do two weeks - - one Diving, one on a Naturalist boat - - and
amortize the money/time spent on transporation on a longer duration
Galapagos experience. Of course, this does take the trip's total cost
up, from easily $12K/couple to clearly over $15K/couple.

-hh

On May 13, 11:56*am, -hh <recscuba_goo...@huntzinger.com> wrote:

> YMMV on your prefernces for how warm you like to be; I recall that we
> had at least one diver in a drysuit.

On my first trip, in the warmer month of June, the two drysuit divers
ended up using the boat's rental suits since they were overheating.
On my August trip, one couple had neoprene drysuits and they seemed
happy. On the latter trip, the air stayed pretty chilly most of the
time and there was a good wind. We wetsuiters got really chilled
after doffing our suits, though the two warm deck showers and hot tea
remedied the situation a bit. You wouldn't want a trilam suit,
though. The barnacle-covered rocks are unforgiving.

> > I find layering works the best there,
> > since temperatures can vary from those
> > cold low 60s to a much more mild mid-70s
> > in the northern islands. *My Hyperstretch
> > "5mm" FJ sans hood was just the ticket
> > at Wolf and Darwin in August, and I
> > stuck my paper-thin Hyperstretch "3mm"
> > under that and wore a hood for the colder
> > stuff. *
>
> I found my conditions to be effectively the same, and I'd probably
> copy your approach next time, as it affords a degree of thermal
> flexibility while remaining "luggage-light". *However, this is down in
> the details of trip planning and gear optimization: *I don't believe
> that the development of coldwater diving practices is not something
> that a novice should be _learning_ for the first time in the Galapagos
> environment. *Let them do that first at home, before they've put down
> a deposit. *That way, if they decide that coldwater diving is not for
> them, they can just do some coolwater snorkeling on a Naturalist
> cruise.

I learned to dive and gained much of my experience in California, so I
didn't really find any of the conditions in the Galapagos much
different that what I'd already experienced locally. However, I'm not
sure how a solely warm-water diver could easily develop the same
breadth of experience in preparation for such a trip. Still, most
people tend to survive their dives there.

> Even as "merely" a Naturalist cruise format. *In an ideal world, you
> would do two weeks - - one Diving, one on a Naturalist boat - - and
> amortize the money/time spent on transporation on a longer duration
> Galapagos experience. *Of course, this does take the trip's total cost
> up, from easily $12K/couple to clearly over $15K/couple.

For me, the longer trip reverses the amortization in my mind because I
become exponentially more stressed out each day beyond a week's trip
length. One day I shall retire and become happy.

We're doing a one-week Regent cruise in Alaska this June and that's
absolutely it for any future trip plans until I become less broke.

On May 13, 2:56 pm, -hh <recscuba_goo...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
> Greg Mossman <moss...@qnet.com> wrote:
> > -hh <recscuba_goo...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
> > > I'd not recommend [Galapagos] to anyone
> > > that doesn't already have 3+years/100+ dives
> > > under his belt, including in some bottom time
> > > after Certification diving in a full 7mmm
> > > Farmer John.
>
> > While I agree with the rest, I think a 7mm
> > FJ is being a bit wussy. After all, people
> > routinely dive those suits in 40 degree water.
> > The Galapagos ain't that cold even on its
> > coldest days.
>
> True, but the point isn't how cold the Galapagos might be, but to
> express that the candidate should have relevant coldwater experience,
> which specifying a 7mm FJ clearly does. Merely saying "experience
> with a single-piece 5mm" isn't good enough, for there are some people
> who dive with 5mm's when in the Caribbean in the winter..mid 70's.
>
> > It's rumored that people have experienced
> > upper 50s, but in reality the coldest it's
> > likely to get at the very coldest part
> > of the year is low 60s. 7mm FJ is
> > overkill for most physiologies.
>
> YMMV on your prefernces for how warm you like to be; I recall that we
> had at least one diver in a drysuit.
>
> > I find layering works the best there,
> > since temperatures can vary from those
> > cold low 60s to a much more mild mid-70s
> > in the northern islands. My Hyperstretch
> > "5mm" FJ sans hood was just the ticket
> > at Wolf and Darwin in August, and I
> > stuck my paper-thin Hyperstretch "3mm"
> > under that and wore a hood for the colder
> > stuff.
>

We had one in a drysuit, too, and he stayed comfortable, to be sure.
Coldest temp we had was about 67 in the last week of May, but the
nature of diving in Galapagos, particularly at Wolf and Darwin,
moderates the actual water temperature. I wore a five mill with a
tropical hood. It was always cold when I first splashed in, but it
only took a couple of minutes of working in the current and racing out
into the blue to look at whale sharks, hammerheads, eagle rays and
what have you to warm me up. I was never cold by the time I got back
in the panga. I am quite sure I'd have been overheated in my 7mm
FJ&J.

I certainly agree with Hugh's point to the original poster that
Galapagos is not the place to learn to dive. Anyone going there should
have experience and some degree of comfort with currents, cold, big
animals, excellent buoyancy control, etc., and should be in pretty
good physical condition. I confess I was barely in good enough shape.
I did all the dives -- 16 of them -- and was exhausted at the end. Of
course, we did a lot of hiking, too. But normally I do 25+ dives on a
liveaboard, and on Nitrox I'm fresh as a daisy at the end. Galapagos
is just that way, but worth every wheezing breath.

gc

"ISBN10" <jpa457@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1cc81d5a-69f2-4e18-ad26-64c8b8b94c13@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Need some advice:
>
> Background: I was NAUI-certified 40 years ago and loved diving in N.
> Fla. I haven't had tanks on in 35 years. I am still a good, strong
> swimmer. When you turn 60 in my family the deal is you get to go
> somewhere you have never been and always wanted to go. I'd like to go
> diving for a week somewhere tropical (FL Keys or Caribbean are what
> is affordable). My expectations are modest, 35-60' depths,
> visibility, reefs, fish. After this dive, I will probably not dive
> again because I live far from water. When I go, I'd like to take my
> 11yr old son diving too.

Roatan. Beautiful island. So inexpensive I feel like the money fairy is
putting cash back in my jeans every night.

The dive ops are mostly staffed by young ex-pats, so language is not a
problem.

The beach at West Bay is one of the most beautiful I have seen in the world,
though one doesn't have to stay at West Bay to enjoy it as it is an easy and
inexpensive water taxi ride from West End Village. Dive sites are 5-20
minutes off shore.

There's ziplines, a dolphin park, an iguana sanctuary and a few other
adventures available for the youngster.

How quiet it will be, will be determined by where you chose to stay.

I love it in West End, but your family may enjoy staying at one of the
dedicated dive resorts like Anthony's Key (has the dolphin park) or Fantasy
Island. I don't recommend Cocoview or Bay Islands Beach Resort in this
instance.

On May 15, 2:39 am, "chilly" <slar...@shaw.canada> wrote:
> "ISBN10" <jpa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
>
> I love it in West End, but your family may enjoy staying at one of the
> dedicated dive resorts like Anthony's Key (has the dolphin park) or Fantasy
> Island. I don't recommend Cocoview or Bay Islands Beach Resort in this
> instance.

Just curious why, chilly? I loved CocoView and I'm looking forward to
returning some time. Easy, convenient boat and shore diving, very
comfortable rooms on the water and the wreck of the Prince Albert on
the "front porch." What's not to like?

gc

"George Cathcart" <george.cathcart@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:52cf29f8-60ae-4f5d-8d75-153997c8f4d8@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On May 15, 2:39 am, "chilly" <slar...@shaw.canada> wrote:
> > "ISBN10" <jpa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> >
> > I love it in West End, but your family may enjoy staying at one of the
> > dedicated dive resorts like Anthony's Key (has the dolphin park) or
Fantasy
> > Island. I don't recommend Cocoview or Bay Islands Beach Resort in this
> > instance.
>
> Just curious why, chilly? I loved CocoView and I'm looking forward to
> returning some time. Easy, convenient boat and shore diving, very
> comfortable rooms on the water and the wreck of the Prince Albert on
> the "front porch." What's not to like?

As I said "in this instance". He's taking his young boy with him who will
be a new diver. I think an 11 year old would be bored out of his gourd at
Cocoview.

Normally, I don't recommend Fantasy Island, but I think a kid would like it.

>
> gc

> "George Cathcart" <george.cathcart@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:52cf29f8-60ae-4f5d-8d75-153997c8f4d8@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...


By the way George (off topic for this thread), did you hear about the deaths
of the cow-nosed rays up here at the Calgary Zoo?